Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation • Hacker News Board

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#101

Post by ezoe » Thu, May 20, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

jakub_g wrote: post #91

Agingcoder wrote: post #85

There is another aspect beyond raw vocabulary and grammar, and that's unspoken cultural assumptions :not abbreviations and slang, but real misunderstandings caused by different understandings of what seems to be a set of perfectly obvious sentences to both sides . A branch of my company went through a merger with another branch in a different country, and with a different language. Needless to say, it was difficult,…

Meeting in person and regularly is extremely underrated. This can happen also within a single culture. When two companies do some business together but instead of meeting often and talking directly (or zoom), spend weeks to carefully craft emails and never talk face to face.

It is exploited.

There are so many evil politicians who order to murder people or made the laws which restrict human rights. But if you meet them in person, you will definitely feel they are nice person.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#102

Post by _delirium » Thu, May 20, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

okareaman wrote: post #40

As an older person who probably needs a hearing aid, I have the most problem with native English speakers not enunciating words. They go fast and run words together or mumble like Noam Chomsky. I have sympathy for ESL people trying to parse it. I always turn on subtitles if available. Also, a Brazilian friend says the don't use much sarcasm, so it gets difficult understand when English speakers use it so much to mean…

I definitely have had this issue. I'm a native English speaker and taught in Europe for a few years, where a subset of students had trouble understanding me, mostly because I would just drop too many consonants and run words together. E.g. if speaking quickly, I tend to pronounce "because" as one syllable, something like "biz". I've moved towards much more consciously enunciating words in mixed-nationality settings. Americans now sometimes think I sound foreign though!

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#103

Post by User23 » Thu, May 20, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

lebuffon wrote: post #36

Two thoughts come to mind. 1. At one time in human history, not long ago, it was mandatory to have some facility in at least a 2nd language to claim you had a higher education. Partial mastery of a 2nd language would help native English speakers "get" what it's like for the non-native people and might help them adjust there speaking style. IMHO we have allowed "higher" education in English speaking countries to devol…

“Lingua franca” is English[1].

[1] https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lingua-franca

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#104

Post by not_knuth » Thu, May 20, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

lebuffon wrote: post #36

Two thoughts come to mind. 1. At one time in human history, not long ago, it was mandatory to have some facility in at least a 2nd language to claim you had a higher education. Partial mastery of a 2nd language would help native English speakers "get" what it's like for the non-native people and might help them adjust there speaking style. IMHO we have allowed "higher" education in English speaking countries to devol…

Regarding your second point, this might be of interest to you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English-based_pidgins

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#105

Post by tuxie_ » Thu, May 20, 2021, 8:53 PM UTC

Now I'm curious what the old title was.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#106

Post by throwaway-8c93 » Thu, May 20, 2021, 8:54 PM UTC

The article echoes what General Jim Mattis commented on the topic of leadership in one of his interviews - (paraphrasing) decisions take an hour to make, the rest of the day is spent crafting the message to ensure there's no room for ambiguity or misunderstanding.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#107

Post by sime2009 » Thu, May 20, 2021, 8:58 PM UTC

b0b0b0b wrote: post #16

Was the word “inflammable”?

I'm guessing "infamous". You know, when someone becomes more than just famous, then become "infamous".

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#108

Post by buescher » Thu, May 20, 2021, 8:59 PM UTC

Ah yes, less fluency makes for better communication, and more fluency makes for worse communication, but only for English speakers. There has got to be a meme in here somewhere.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#109

Post by corpMaverick » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

As a non native speaker I struggle with this. I work with some native speakers which are more articulate, use a more complex sentence structure, speak faster and speak a lot longer. I often loose track of what they are saying and it is very hard to argue against them. I feel like a three year old.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#110

Post by jmercouris » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

corpMaverick wrote: post #109

As a non native speaker I struggle with this. I work with some native speakers which are more articulate, use a more complex sentence structure, speak faster and speak a lot longer. I often loose track of what they are saying and it is very hard to argue against them. I feel like a three year old.

I have the same problem when arguing in foreign languages. It is very frustrating. You feel powerless.