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America’s Dead Souls

theparisreview.org

31–40 of 85 posts

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#31
post #8
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping to trick them into paying. That sounds like fraud. Can the families not sue afterwards to get the money they paid back, with damages, on the grounds they were victims of fraud?

I'd assume that, as long as they're careful about how they pressure you, it's not fraud if you decide to pay. AFAIK they're under no obligation to volunteer that you don't have to pay them anything, or to otherwise educate you about the fact that they're (in fact) just begging for money they're not owed, and hoping you'll give it to them. But if they ask you (the aggrieved, in the middle of hosting family and trying…

If it isn't fraud, it should be. The lack of liability or any requirements for due diligence for debt collectors is a utter travesty that primarily harms the most vulnerable and underrepresented people in our society.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#32
post #15

If you want to read Dead Souls , there's a free high quality edition at Standard Ebooks: https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/nikolai-gogol/dead-souls/d... It's a surprisingly funny and brisk read.

A big part of the jokes I seemingly missed reading it in English, according to a friend of mine who read it in Russian, is that some of the landowners and other characters' names are untranslated puns.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#33
post #2

If this happens to you: 1) The creditors are full of shit. Don't accept the estate, don't acknowledge that you owe any debt, and you don't owe them a damn thing. If no-one accepts it, they're simply screwed. They'll try to trick you into paying anyway, because they are, in fact, monsters, but they're full of shit. 2) Look up (online) the correct magic words to tell the creditors to go fuck themselves, or else face ch…

I wish I'd been more aggressive about this when my mother in law died. She left behind a house, but also a half a million dollars worth of medical debt from a decade of chronic illness that eventually took her life. We thought "fine, we'll let the creditors fight over the house and be done with it", but they refused. They told us it was our responsibility to sell the house at at least market rate--which was hard because it had several decades of deferred maintenance. They would only take cash and refused to do any work for it beyond making threatening phone calls about garnishing our wages if we didn't get it done in time.

Since it was the state Medicaid office harassing us I really didn't want to get in a legal fight so we did all of the work of selling the house. Our lawyer did at least manage to get our costs taken out of the closing fees so we weren't out of pocket except for the time and effort and miles since we live in a different state. All in all I can't recommend having a loved one die.

The worst part is back when my mother in law got sick my wife convinced her to write us out of her will because we were told that the state would get the home anyway after her medical bills piled up. What she didn't tell us is that she just changed her will to name her church as the beneficiary. Once we read the will it became yet another mess to clean up. It should have been easy enough, we talked with the pastor and convinced him to refuse the estate easily enough. Unfortunately the church board overrode him (I think they believed we were trying to pull a fast one), and then found themselves in a fight with the state over a house they also had no intention of putting the effort into selling and also a huge medical debt. It was very tempting to just drop the thing and walk away at that point, but it was clear the problem would never be resolved and it would almost certainly come back to haunt us in the end. We had to do the work because nobody else was going to. I never did get a clear answer from the Medicaid debt collectors why they couldn't just put the estate up on a government auction. I think it would have required them to do some work and they really just didn't want to.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#34
post #15

If you want to read Dead Souls , there's a free high quality edition at Standard Ebooks: https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/nikolai-gogol/dead-souls/d... It's a surprisingly funny and brisk read.

I remember laughing out loud at some description of how one may refer to a smelly cheese in polite society, but I can't find anything about cheese at all in the English translation. Maybe the Norwegian translator made up a joke more palatable to Norwegians =D

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#35

I think it is important to raise awareness about Filial Responsibility Laws which hold children accountable for the debts of parents. More than half of US state have laws on the books which enable debt holders to go after assets outside of the deceased's estate. It is becoming increasingly common for nursing homes to bring suits against adult children of their residents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsib…

This is pretty damn scary. Are debtor's prisons about to make a comeback too?

Your post implies that they have ever went away. They haven't, there's just a large middle-class America that's largely insulated from the barbarism of its legal system.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#36
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I dont think PA is an exception here. Most states have similar laws on the books.

https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/children-support-parent... The interesting part is how they're not applied. There are federal statutes that are more specific - and only two states have used these laws within the last 20 years. There are only extreme corner cases where you need to worry about this.

No one needs to worry, until money gets tight. Then it's every man for himself, and the government will go after you. Or they will stiff the nursing home, and then let the nursing home go after you, like the what happened to the guy in Pennsylvania.

With the government budget situation in many places, and large amounts of people about to become elderly and rack up bills, I would consider it more than a remote possibility in the future.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#37
post #14

I am shocked to see the debt fall on the descendant. Is this legal? If a parent commits a murder the legal system does not blame the descendant. How is it legal for debt be passed to descendants?

Literally anything can be made legal. The people who want the money can lobby legislators until they get a law they want passed. Nothing stops it. Lobbying is legal, and lawmakers can make any law they want. They can even make a law that allows corporations to abuse people (which is weird since corporations are people, but we don't generally allow people to abuse people)

Thanks for writing this. Many times when people ask "Is it legal?" they miss this nuance. What they often mean instead is "Is it moral?" It is a great accomplishment of the political class to have manufactured this ambiguity.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#38

I think it is important to raise awareness about Filial Responsibility Laws which hold children accountable for the debts of parents. More than half of US state have laws on the books which enable debt holders to go after assets outside of the deceased's estate. It is becoming increasingly common for nursing homes to bring suits against adult children of their residents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsib…

This is pretty damn scary. Are debtor's prisons about to make a comeback too?

We already have them. Inmates in most US jails and prisons are charged a per diem just for being there. It’s disgraceful.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#39
post #14

I am shocked to see the debt fall on the descendant. Is this legal? If a parent commits a murder the legal system does not blame the descendant. How is it legal for debt be passed to descendants?

Afaik if you accept the inheritance, you accept all of it. Normally the solution is to reject it, at least if you know the estate’s in the red, but you can not pick and choose. We’ve done this for the inheritance of one of my uncles who died severely in debt, as well as his wife and children, everyone of his sibling, nieces, and nephews, had to refuse the inheritance when they came of age. For a few years that was ba…

Beyond refusing the inheritance, could this be avoided by leaving the inheritance to the state in a will? In that case, would the state inherit the debt?

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#40
post #24
post #3

Creditors can only go after the assets of the estate. One does not inherit debts. In this case the State likely got the house to pay back Medicaid via “Medicaid Recovery”.

Fillial responsibility laws exist in about half of the US. I believe only some types of debts can be passed on (like nursing home costs), but it varies by state.

I was curious and found this Wikipedia article [1] providing the list of states with filial responsibility laws.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsibility_laws

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