IRCv3 • Hacker News Board

Re: IRCv3

#81

Post by sneak » Thu, May 20, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

xvilka wrote: post #53

metroholografix wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being disingenuous. IRC has been right at the center of the vast majority of non-enterprise technical communities and especially opensource for the last 25 years. Say what you will about culture but this is a fact and I don't see it changing. Slack and Teams are gimmicks at best. Matrix unusable for me, every single one of my peers and, apparently, the vast majority of said technical communities that keep thei…

We recently switched to use self-hosted Mattermost plus Matterbridge[1] to connect with IRC, Telegram, Discord, etc. There is also an amazing console client - Matterhorn[2]. [1] https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge [2] https://github.com/matterhorn-chat/matterhorn

Note that mattermost by default phones home to a spyware analytics service even when you selfhost it. The env vars for disabling it are hidden/undocumented.

Copy the diagnostics/securityalert env vars from here, as well as the sed lines:

https://github.com/caprover/one-click-apps/blob/master/publi...

Re: IRCv3

#82

Post by brennen » Thu, May 20, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #44

badsectoracula wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And by "improve" everyone understands "get more complicated and bloated" :-P

Yes, by innovating and giving people the user experiences they want. IRC is a joke once you’re used to Slack, especially in an organization that uses it well.

The thing is, I don't want these experiences. Am I allowed to stop having them now? Turns out: Not if I want to keep doing my job.

Burn Slack to the ground is my considered stance at this point.

Re: IRCv3

#83

Post by it33 » Thu, May 20, 2021, 7:55 PM UTC

xvilka wrote: post #53

metroholografix wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being disingenuous. IRC has been right at the center of the vast majority of non-enterprise technical communities and especially opensource for the last 25 years. Say what you will about culture but this is a fact and I don't see it changing. Slack and Teams are gimmicks at best. Matrix unusable for me, every single one of my peers and, apparently, the vast majority of said technical communities that keep thei…

We recently switched to use self-hosted Mattermost plus Matterbridge[1] to connect with IRC, Telegram, Discord, etc. There is also an amazing console client - Matterhorn[2]. [1] https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge [2] https://github.com/matterhorn-chat/matterhorn

Mattermost CEO here, thanks for the share out! We're big fans of Matterbridge and Matterhorn as well!

Re: IRCv3

#84

Post by Nasreddin_Hodja » Thu, May 20, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

_abox wrote: post #60

Yoric wrote: post #16

Given that Matrix seems to be quite successful these days, and afaict is basically a next-gen IRC, is there any compelling reason to push IRC?

Matrix seems to lack a good high density client. The only one that's really full featured is Element but it's very consumerish and uses lots of screen space. As soon as you bridge multiple IRC networks and have lots of other chats open, the chat list becomes really messy imo.

> The only one that's really full featured is Element but it's very consumerish

I heard that server is very consumerish too.

Re: IRCv3

#85

Post by Nasreddin_Hodja » Thu, May 20, 2021, 8:23 PM UTC

SilverRed wrote: post #56

metroholografix wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything has to run on top of HTTP or use json. IRCv3 gets a lot more right than wrong.

Using HTTP would be an absolutely massive improvement for IRC. IRC is essentially useless on mobile without having some man in the middle server to convert IRC to http. It's even pretty useless on laptops or desktops that aren't always running.

> IRC is essentially useless on mobile without having some man in the middle server to convert IRC to http.

That's not true. I used HoloIRC client on Android with no problem.

> It's even pretty useless on laptops or desktops that aren't always running.

There is no need to. If it's about talks history, chats are not right tool then, forums are more convenient.

Chats are suitable for casual or urgent instant discussions. In all other cases forums are better because user doesn't have to present during discussion, he can return and comment any time he want.

Re: IRCv3

#86

Post by JeremyNT » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:34 PM UTC

nirvdrum wrote: post #51

azinman2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, by innovating and giving people the user experiences they want. IRC is a joke once you’re used to Slack, especially in an organization that uses it well.

I appreciate having a streamlined chat application, but understand that others feel differently. IRC applications are much better on resource consumption and snappier in my experience, but aren't all that practical on a mobile device. Naturally, how each of us feels about that experience is subjective. So setting that aside, the part about IRC that I haven't seen handled with Slack is being a one-stop shop. With IRC,…

I also abandoned Slack completely due to its horrendous performance and UX. I find comments like the parent above you utterly perplexing.

There are Slack gateways that exist for native applications. I currently use a Slack libpurple plugin with Pidgin, and although threading is slightly cumbersome, eliminating Electron and/or a browser has greatly improved my experience overall.

Re: IRCv3

#87

Post by VectorLock » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

disposekinetics wrote: post #54

VectorLock wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've interacted with IRC servers via telnet a ton of times. But overall I think that era of protocol design is unfortunately long passed (looking at you SMTP)

My dream is we move away from overly complex layers on top of HTTP and move to open simple protocols.

I miss simpler, human readable, conversational APIs like the IRC protocol.

Re: IRCv3

#88

Post by MaxLeiter » Thu, May 20, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

selfhoster11 wrote: post #74

badsectoracula wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And by "improve" everyone understands "get more complicated and bloated" :-P

Features desired by modern users have a minimum complexity to them. It's just unavoidable. Classic IRC has many drawbacks and missing features: - messages sent to you while logged out are lost - no support for videos, images and GIFs - (usually) not great support for emoji - no support for file attachments - no useful mobile clients unless with support from the server Yes, those can be considered frivolous features,…

fwiw, these are all addressed by IRCCloud or The Lounge (and some others to varying degrees)

Re: IRCv3

#89

Post by u801e » Thu, May 20, 2021, 11:37 PM UTC

selfhoster11 wrote: post #74

badsectoracula wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And by "improve" everyone understands "get more complicated and bloated" :-P

Features desired by modern users have a minimum complexity to them. It's just unavoidable. Classic IRC has many drawbacks and missing features: - messages sent to you while logged out are lost - no support for videos, images and GIFs - (usually) not great support for emoji - no support for file attachments - no useful mobile clients unless with support from the server Yes, those can be considered frivolous features,…

A lot of these features are normally handled by other services. So for videos, images, and gifs, these can be represented by a URL that's pasted in the channel that you can view with a web browser.

The advantage of doing it this way actually makes it easier to scroll back in the chat history when you're searching for something that was posted.

Re: IRCv3

#90

Post by u801e » Thu, May 20, 2021, 11:59 PM UTC

JeremyNT wrote: post #86

nirvdrum wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate having a streamlined chat application, but understand that others feel differently. IRC applications are much better on resource consumption and snappier in my experience, but aren't all that practical on a mobile device. Naturally, how each of us feels about that experience is subjective. So setting that aside, the part about IRC that I haven't seen handled with Slack is being a one-stop shop. With IRC,…

I also abandoned Slack completely due to its horrendous performance and UX. I find comments like the parent above you utterly perplexing. There are Slack gateways that exist for native applications. I currently use a Slack libpurple plugin with Pidgin, and although threading is slightly cumbersome, eliminating Electron and/or a browser has greatly improved my experience overall.

I didn't mind using slack when they had an IRC gateway.