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America’s Dead Souls

theparisreview.org

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Re: America’s Dead Souls

#21

Post by Judgmentality »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #10

I think it is important to raise awareness about Filial Responsibility Laws which hold children accountable for the debts of parents. More than half of US state have laws on the books which enable debt holders to go after assets outside of the deceased's estate. It is becoming increasingly common for nursing homes to bring suits against adult children of their residents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsib…

I don't understand how this is legal, let alone upheld by a state Supreme Court. How can I be legally responsible for my parents? How would the courts even find me if I don't live in the US anymore (the example case is the courts successfully suing a man who moved to Greece)?

I am thankful to you for bringing this to my attention, but my WTF! meter is soaring.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#22

Post by giantg2 »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #19
s1artibartfast wrote: post #10

I think it is important to raise awareness about Filial Responsibility Laws which hold children accountable for the debts of parents. More than half of US state have laws on the books which enable debt holders to go after assets outside of the deceased's estate. It is becoming increasingly common for nursing homes to bring suits against adult children of their residents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsib…

This is pretty damn scary. Are debtor's prisons about to make a comeback too?

Dude, that's basically what we have now. Bond, fines, court fees, lawyer fees, prison labor, etc. Even if you win, you still lose financially.

Edit: I forgot a big one. The early intervention or accelerated rehabilitation programs cost tons of money, paid both to the system and to the vendors of ignition interlocks, ankle bracelets, etc. You really are paying to stay out of prison.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#23

Post by ptudan »

syntheticnature wrote: post #13
gotoeleven wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this article is a bit dramatic. As evil as the rich people who try to recover debts may be, children are not legally responsible for their parent's debts.

Except when they are! https://www.paelderlaw.com/asset-protection-medicaid/supreme...

That is so ridiculous. You can be born into this world without your decision or input. Your parents made that choice. Your parents can also choose to kick you out right at 18, after fulfilling their legal obligation.

Then, down the line, you can be held responsible for potentially even more than 18 years of more expensive care? Absolutely unfair.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#24

Post by giantg2 »

tyoma wrote: post #3

Creditors can only go after the assets of the estate. One does not inherit debts. In this case the State likely got the house to pay back Medicaid via “Medicaid Recovery”.

Fillial responsibility laws exist in about half of the US. I believe only some types of debts can be passed on (like nursing home costs), but it varies by state.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#25

Post by cowanon22 »

moshmosh wrote: post #2

If this happens to you: 1) The creditors are full of shit. Don't accept the estate, don't acknowledge that you owe any debt, and you don't owe them a damn thing. If no-one accepts it, they're simply screwed. They'll try to trick you into paying anyway, because they are, in fact, monsters, but they're full of shit. 2) Look up (online) the correct magic words to tell the creditors to go fuck themselves, or else face ch…

Personally, I would hire a lawyer in the relevant jurisdiction and specialty. Laws are complicated, and collections and court cases are very expensive if you happen to be wrong. The lawyer can help you reduce the amount if you happen to be responsible for part of it. The "magic words" will have much more power if they come from an practicing attorney.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#26

Post by s1artibartfast »

Judgmentality wrote: post #21
s1artibartfast wrote: post #10

I think it is important to raise awareness about Filial Responsibility Laws which hold children accountable for the debts of parents. More than half of US state have laws on the books which enable debt holders to go after assets outside of the deceased's estate. It is becoming increasingly common for nursing homes to bring suits against adult children of their residents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_responsib…

I don't understand how this is legal, let alone upheld by a state Supreme Court. How can I be legally responsible for my parents? How would the courts even find me if I don't live in the US anymore (the example case is the courts successfully suing a man who moved to Greece)? I am thankful to you for bringing this to my attention, but my WTF! meter is soaring.

In the example you mention, it was the parent that went to Greece. It was a child living in the US that was forced to pay.

It is actually worse than that. Many states also have criminal penalties allowing incarceration for financial neglect of parents.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#27

Post by defen »

acabal wrote: post #15

If you want to read Dead Souls , there's a free high quality edition at Standard Ebooks: https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/nikolai-gogol/dead-souls/d... It's a surprisingly funny and brisk read.

I enjoyed it but I also felt that there was too much of a culture gap (or simply my own lack of knowledge of 19th century Russia) for me to fully appreciate everything that was going on.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#28

Post by codemac »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #11
ashleyn wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One notable, and very underreported exception, is Pennsylvania's filial responsibility law[1]. In Pennsylvania, if a resident of a nursing home is indigent, the liability falls statutorily on their family, who the home is free to sue and secure a judgement. This may not have gotten much attention due to uncommon use, but it's very real, and it's been upheld by the PA State Supreme Court. A handful of children of seni…

Actually, I dont think PA is an exception here. Most states have similar laws on the books.

https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/children-support-parent...

The interesting part is how they're not applied. There are federal statutes that are more specific - and only two states have used these laws within the last 20 years.

There are only extreme corner cases where you need to worry about this.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#29

Post by masklinn »

hi41 wrote: post #14

I am shocked to see the debt fall on the descendant. Is this legal? If a parent commits a murder the legal system does not blame the descendant. How is it legal for debt be passed to descendants?

Afaik if you accept the inheritance, you accept all of it. Normally the solution is to reject it, at least if you know the estate’s in the red, but you can not pick and choose.

We’ve done this for the inheritance of one of my uncles who died severely in debt, as well as his wife and children, everyone of his sibling, nieces, and nephews, had to refuse the inheritance when they came of age. For a few years that was basically the traditional birthday: eat cakes, get presents, sign letter telling the bank you don’t want that debt.

And apparently some states have filial responsibility statutes which makes children responsible regardless, which seems beyond fucked.

Re: America’s Dead Souls

#30

Post by wldcordeiro »

giantg2 wrote: post #22
UncleOxidant wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty damn scary. Are debtor's prisons about to make a comeback too?

Dude, that's basically what we have now. Bond, fines, court fees, lawyer fees, prison labor, etc. Even if you win, you still lose financially. Edit: I forgot a big one. The early intervention or accelerated rehabilitation programs cost tons of money, paid both to the system and to the vendors of ignition interlocks, ankle bracelets, etc. You really are paying to stay out of prison.

They never went away they just rewrote the rules so you go in for something else on paper.
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