Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck • Hacker News Board

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#41

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, May 20, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

wazokazi wrote: post #5

Animats wrote: post #2

Starts just under $40K. Before federal EV incentive payments. Compares to $30.6K for the 2022 gas version. After incentives, the difference is only about $2.5K. This is when electric vehicles really start taking over.

Are incentives even necessary anymore? Regardless, this just shows how well Ford understands the truck market. This will sell like hot cakes, and they will have trouble keeping up with demand.

EVs are currently 5% of annual sales. They need to be 60% by 2030, and 100% by 2035. Yea, incentives are still necessary, but higher taxes on combustion vehicles as well.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#42

Post by danans » Thu, May 20, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

rasz wrote: post #39

>Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning Reality: Ford confirms existence of at least one prototype, after President has been filmed driving one.

They've announced the entire product line with every trim level. It's hardly just a prototype.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#43

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 20, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

evgen wrote: post #36

maxharris wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has offered other companies access for years, and very few have accepted it: https://www.electrive.com/2020/12/22/tesla-superchargers-alr...

It's almost like everyone else is working together to create the actual de facto standard and Tesla can join or stay out in the cold. If one company is doing X and a lot of other companies are collectively doing Y then X is not the standard...

[deleted]

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#44

Post by theluketaylor » Thu, May 20, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

Ford came so close to nailing it. They are doing a special EV frame, including the first independent rear suspension for F-150. 300 mile range available is great. Packaging everything extremely well to offer 400 litres in the frunk is an absolute game changer for truck owners. Re-using the F-150 body shell keeps costs down and allows them to easily provide interior feature parity. 9.6 kW to run your home and tons of 20 amp plugs to run tools and tailgating is brilliant. 10,000 lbs towing and 1800-2000 lbs payload is great.

Then they fell flat on their faces: 41 minutes 15-80% charging. That charging curve is simply not acceptable when Hyundai's Ionic 5 has the same starting price and is about 20 minutes 10-80%.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#45

Post by b3morales » Thu, May 20, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

mint2 wrote: post #37

aynyc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the amount of GOOD EV coming to market, I think a lot of places (gas stations, etc) can quickly pivot to support charging stations, assuming incentives align with them. It's naturally for a lot of places with free parking (such as strip malls) to rent out the parking spaces to charging providers for extra cash. Just like cell towers.

I don’t think gas stations are set up for this. Who wants to spend 25 minutes hanging out in a gas station convenience store? Cafes or any other place to relax for 25 minutes seems the fuel station of the future.

I would assume gas stations will start adding waiting room space, like you see in tire shops, car washes, etc. Of course they might do even better to add a more coffee shop kind of thing, so they can also sell you a muffin or something while you wait.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#46

Post by theluketaylor » Thu, May 20, 2021, 3:58 PM UTC

SigmundA wrote: post #16

Looks like roughly 130kwh battery for 230 miles and 180kwh for 300 miles. Large battery is 1800lbs, about twice the size and weight of a Model 3 battery. Towing range is always a problem with BEV's, to get good range they they usually focus on aerodynamics and rolling resistance which towing completely destroys. Estimates are it will be under 100 miles range towing its maximum of 10,000lbs with the big battery. Start…

The feature list is fantastic, especially since Ford leaned into the EV-ness with powering the home and so many outlets in the bed and frunk.

They came so close to nailing it, but the charge curve is simply not acceptable. 41 minutes for 15-80% is way, way too long. Hyundai Ionic 5 is the same starting price and is close to 20 minutes. The F-150 has a much bigger battery, but that should also mean it can maintain the a high charge rate for longer before tapering. Ford not using 800V is going to come back to haunt them.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#47

Post by sf_rob » Thu, May 20, 2021, 4:16 PM UTC

mint2 wrote: post #37

aynyc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the amount of GOOD EV coming to market, I think a lot of places (gas stations, etc) can quickly pivot to support charging stations, assuming incentives align with them. It's naturally for a lot of places with free parking (such as strip malls) to rent out the parking spaces to charging providers for extra cash. Just like cell towers.

I don’t think gas stations are set up for this. Who wants to spend 25 minutes hanging out in a gas station convenience store? Cafes or any other place to relax for 25 minutes seems the fuel station of the future.

There's already a shift to customer experience oriented gas stations on road trip routes. I would happily spend a half hour at a Sheetz, Buckees, Wawa, etc. I'd prefer a proper restaurant but there's room for both.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#48

Post by SigmundA » Thu, May 20, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

theluketaylor wrote: post #46

SigmundA wrote: post #16

Looks like roughly 130kwh battery for 230 miles and 180kwh for 300 miles. Large battery is 1800lbs, about twice the size and weight of a Model 3 battery. Towing range is always a problem with BEV's, to get good range they they usually focus on aerodynamics and rolling resistance which towing completely destroys. Estimates are it will be under 100 miles range towing its maximum of 10,000lbs with the big battery. Start…

The feature list is fantastic, especially since Ford leaned into the EV-ness with powering the home and so many outlets in the bed and frunk. They came so close to nailing it, but the charge curve is simply not acceptable. 41 minutes for 15-80% is way, way too long. Hyundai Ionic 5 is the same starting price and is close to 20 minutes. The F-150 has a much bigger battery, but that should also mean it can maintain the…

800v adds some complications, if the pack is 800v you need a boost converter to charge from 400v or the pack needs to dynamically reconfigure with contactors or something.

On the Porsche Taycan which has an 800v battery you have to pay extra for full 150kw charging on 400v because of the voltage booster cost, the standard booster only allows 50kw and there is some loss in the conversion you will pay for.

Same issues if you go the other way and have a 400v battery with 800v charging except buck vs boost.

800v chargers can't be fed directly by 480vac which adds complexity and cost so there are very few at this time I believe, most chargers will be 400v and limited to 150kw anyway.

800v is probably the future but its kinda chicken and egg right now, I see why they went 400v.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#49

Post by obloid » Thu, May 20, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

I was really excited about this truck until I saw they went the Tesla route with the giant touchscreen in the middle of the console. Do they think that this what EV buyers want because Tesla has it? I want a vehicle with simple tactile controls just like my ICE vehicle, but electric. Maybe I'm in the minority.

Re: Ford unveils the F-150 Lightning, its all-electric pickup truck

#50

Post by aynyc » Thu, May 20, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

mint2 wrote: post #37

aynyc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the amount of GOOD EV coming to market, I think a lot of places (gas stations, etc) can quickly pivot to support charging stations, assuming incentives align with them. It's naturally for a lot of places with free parking (such as strip malls) to rent out the parking spaces to charging providers for extra cash. Just like cell towers.

I don’t think gas stations are set up for this. Who wants to spend 25 minutes hanging out in a gas station convenience store? Cafes or any other place to relax for 25 minutes seems the fuel station of the future.

With EV charging stations, you don't need the expensive environmental cost of having gasoline and cost of operations. You can lease out a few parking spaces in your business (cafe, grocery, bookstores) parking lots and take a part of the profits of charging stations.