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Robinhood’s big gamble

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Re: Robinhood’s big gamble

#151
post #5

Both. But then again, Hedge funds for rich people also encourage risky behavior (leveraging up their models, as imperfect as they are from time to time is definitely risky).

Hedge funds also spent a decade not beating the market. Remember Buffet's hedge fund bet? https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/24/investing/warren-buffett-an...

If you ever have the need to invest billions that outcome might be meaningful. One need not beat the market. It is not difficult to trade time and thought for an upgrade in returns over funds. Frankly, just being awake to push the button during a crash, and making half ass reasonable investments afterwards is plenty.

Re: Robinhood’s big gamble

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Do they need to make their UI flow less smooth, or give some big warning that people are dealing with real money? >Yes. Absolutely. Why would that be a problem? Are you proposing that this warning can't be disabled or permanently dismissed? As an adult consumer I do NOT want this.

Why not? Are you trading so often that a bit of additional friction is an issue? If so, a) you should reconsider, that's generally a good way to lose money, and b) you're probably classified as a pattern day trader, anyway, and you're already subject to a (very mild) speedbump: https://robinhood.com/us/en/support/articles/pattern-day-tra... > Pattern Day Trade Protection alerts you when you’ve placed three day trades…

Not sure I would seek advice about what you find "generally" good trading practices.

Re: Robinhood’s big gamble

#153
post #142
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If "operate as a real brokerage" means that you must have $5B+ of cash tied up at the clearing house, that's a pretty stiff barrier for entry. To be fair, I don't like RH. They are irresponsible, greedy and reckless. They have turned day trading into outright gambling - and quite frankly, if a gambling company gamified their UX the way RH did theirs, the gambling company execs would be rightfully raked over hot coals…

> Shitting on RH because they had to obey the clearing house rules is intellectual cowardice. I think if you are going to operate as a brokerage you need to be able to fulfill all types of trades which in turn means you meet the needs of the clearing house, to limit investors to sells when you have funding from someone with a clear interest/holding/shorts (whatever) is a pretty stiff conflict of interest. This is jus…

That's actually a much more interesting question, and I admit, not something I had even considered. What kind of outlier situations and stress scenarios should you be required to weather to be allowed to be a brokerage? We as a society instituted mandatory stress tests for banks after the last financial meltdown, after all.

The odd thing about the GameStop mess is that it inadvertantly exposed a lot of internal machinery of finance.

> But the 'you are allowed to only sell and not buy a stock' is so grossly wrong I don't see how anyone can look past that

I don't fall into either category, but I find myself disagreeing. These one-sided failure modes ("can only sell") are in fact common failsafes, although the reasons behind them are more generic. It may well be I look at things very differently because I operate on the other side.

Counterparty risks are real. When things start to fail, or there is a risk that an entity can not meet their obligations, the common fail safe is to limit/reduce exposure. Actions that would increase their exposure are not allowed, while actions that decrease their exposure, are.

When RH went into a one-sided failure mode with GameStop, they did what is required of them: they restricted their ability to increase exposure to a wildly imbalanced contract, only allowing trades that reduced the said exposure. Having these types of fail safes is, funnily enough, part of requirements for operating as a broker.

In effect, they were too poor to handle the outlier scenario. In the same way banks are too cash poor to allow all their customers to empty their accounts.

But oh boy, how they communicated that... now there's a lesson for future students.

Re: Robinhood’s big gamble

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Schwab customer, I can confidently note there are many outages, especially on volatile market days. Sometimes, you have no idea if an order went through. With e-trade you get a sub-second push notification for trade confirmations, but with Schwab those push notifications come minutes or hours later. Meanwhile, if the website is down, you have no idea what exposure you have.

Very odd to see massively wealthy industries still struggling to provide stable operations.

It puzzles me also! Isn't handling load a known science at this point?!?

You just need to cough up some $ and hire some ex-SF/SV folks who have done big sites -- something top-5 brokerages should be able to hire.

Re: Robinhood’s big gamble

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very odd to see massively wealthy industries still struggling to provide stable operations.

It puzzles me also! Isn't handling load a known science at this point?!? You just need to cough up some $ and hire some ex-SF/SV folks who have done big sites -- something top-5 brokerages should be able to hire.

Something in the system probably removes the benefits of improving latency. People losing money this way are probably not numerous enough or too immature to sue. "Less efforts and more profit.. why bother" I suppose ? Competition also probably know that and don't pursue this axis. I'm sure they prefer enrolling more newbs and more influencers.

Re: Robinhood’s big gamble

#156
post #153
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shitting on RH because they had to obey the clearing house rules is intellectual cowardice. I think if you are going to operate as a brokerage you need to be able to fulfill all types of trades which in turn means you meet the needs of the clearing house, to limit investors to sells when you have funding from someone with a clear interest/holding/shorts (whatever) is a pretty stiff conflict of interest. This is jus…

That's actually a much more interesting question, and I admit, not something I had even considered. What kind of outlier situations and stress scenarios should you be required to weather to be allowed to be a brokerage? We as a society instituted mandatory stress tests for banks after the last financial meltdown, after all. The odd thing about the GameStop mess is that it inadvertantly exposed a lot of internal machi…

Yes there are a lot of lessons here, and no easy answers. I can poke holes in my own arguments. I still believe they shouldnt be allowed to be a brokerage based on past behavior and for the common good of everyone but its tough. And money talks, unfortunately.
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