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Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

bbc.com

51–60 of 261 posts

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#51

This is a terrible title and a terrible article. The claims made here are tied to the fact that English is more or less the primary language of international business. Its well known that people who learn secondary languages tend to know the "rules" around the language and tend to be more specific when using secondary languages. Its pretty weird for the article to conflate using slang/abbreviations/language tied to c…

I think the problem is that the way English phrases things is often completely bizarre compared to virtually any other language, which is confusing, as a seemingly straightforward sentence may imply something completely unexpected.

I think it might be because of its lack of real grammatical topic, which is otherwise ubiquitous and often more important than the subject.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#53
post #18

You can learn how to be better understood as a native speaker without having to go abroad or even speak to a lot of people using English as a second language. In the UK, live in a city like Birmingham, for instance, with a strong local accent and even, in some parts like the Black Country, a unique syntax, e.g. "How am ya?". Now go live for a while in, for the sake of argument, Glasgow, with their own particular pato…

Conversely, I lived for a while with a Glaswegian who had moved to the South of England, having lived his whole life in Glasgow. It was interesting watching him realise that he had to moderate his speech, otherwise so much of what he said was lost. Over time, he stopped using some of the specifically regional stuff that nobody understood.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#54

So what was the word?? This is like those articles about photos that don't actually include the photo.

Off the top of my head was it the Citibank Revlon issue? I seem to remember there being a break down in communication between Indian Staff and the US staff.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#55
post #29

In one episode of Black Books, main character Manny finds out he can play piano. Other character Bernard wants to use it to impress a woman, so he forces Manny to hide inside the piano and play using spoons. Manny does it but later refuses to do it again. To convince him to do it one more time, Bernard offers him one whole week of vacation. Manny looks at Bernard, then extend his arms forwards, palms open up, and say…

If someone without context had walked into the room and heard him say “spoon me”, they’d likely think something very different were going on.

“Spoon” as a verb usually means something like “cuddle me” - as in “let’s be like spoons and fit all our curves really close together”.

It seems like the “o” in “olyžicujte ma” clarified that you’re talking about equipping.

I haven’t seen the show, but that double entendre on “spoon” might have been one layer of the joke.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#56

This is a terrible title and a terrible article. The claims made here are tied to the fact that English is more or less the primary language of international business. Its well known that people who learn secondary languages tend to know the "rules" around the language and tend to be more specific when using secondary languages. Its pretty weird for the article to conflate using slang/abbreviations/language tied to c…

> Other languages have built in cultural connotations that pretty much only matter within their specific culture that doesn't really make sense outside of it.

I once was trying to contact an engineer that had worked on a project before me. Their last name in git was just "R". After some searching and asking another colleague I found out that this is a special last name that is abbreviated that way.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#57
Amusing anecdote.

I was in a class with a Japanese instructor. I had a great deal of trouble understanding him. A hand was raised and a person began talking with a very different accent (Finnish) and I understood very little of that. The Japanese instructor understood the question and replied. I however understood almost nothing of the entire exchange. This may be the future for native English language speakers or perhaps is already the norm in some parts of the world.

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#58

So what was the word?? This is like those articles about photos that don't actually include the photo.

Off the top of my head was it the Citibank Revlon issue? I seem to remember there being a break down in communication between Indian Staff and the US staff.

No, that was just a super shitty software UI: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/02/citibank-just-go...

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#59
This article blames English specifically for what is ultimately a cultural difference. This goes for a native speaker in any language.

I speak passable Spanish, and have encountered the same "cultural dissonance" when dealing with a native speaker in a room full of non-native speakers. When you grow up embedded in a language and culture, you don't realize when you slip into colloquialisms and culture references that don't translate well.

That whole business deal the article opens with is a joke. It's not the native speaker's fault, nor the word's fault. It was the recipient who picked randomly when faced with an unclear choice. If you're unclear, as for clarification. I worked with an international collaboration of scientists during college and that was one of things you learned quickly. No one has the same frame of reference you do, so make sure you're all on the same page. Hell, simply rephrasing your understanding in a reply before you take action can clear this up in a single message. "So you wanted us to X? Got it!". Then the other party has the opportunity to step in and say, "No, do Y".

Re: Native speakers are hard to understand in a lingua franca situation

#60
I think the article touches on a few interesting points, but only at a fairly shallow.

What I have noticed working with various levels of bilinguals is that native vs non-native often have different misunderstandings.

A native person firing something off to another native will make too many assumptions. "I understand what 'it' is. No need to elaborate" is the feeling.

Non-natives tend to lean on a smaller set of vocabulary and grammar. This tends to serve them well in slower, written communication but can give them trouble in speaking when there is a miscommunication and they don't have the skills to correct it. Over- or under-applying a rule past it's breaking point. They also have to contend with false friends(words to be related across languages but actually have different meanings), which can sometimes cause very hard to spot miscommunications as both speaker and listener have separate but consistent ideas in their heads.

When it comes to accents, in general it can be considered rude to ask someone to modify their accent. I know that if I affect a general American accent I will be understood better, but should I?

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