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UK Rail services to come under unified state control

bbc.com

61–70 of 383 posts

Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until lockdown I commuted to Manchester on the Rochdale line in Leyland-branded Pacers[0]. Trains with an intended lifespan of "no more than twenty years", that are now 35-40 years old. The tickets cost £100 per month and in the years I did it, only managed to find a seat on a handful of occasions. I had to wait at the station because the train was too full more frequently than finding a seat - often they'd show up w…

£100 a month? It’s £200 return for a day for Bristol to London - and that’s if the train gets you there, and doesn’t dump you somewhere outside of Chippenham because it’s the wrong kind of sunny today and the rails have buckled, or it’s cold and the rails have frozen, or it’s raining and the train is poorly with diesel cholera. All of these are acts of god, of course, so aren’t compensatable events.

Yep just wanted to echo this I live in Bristol and have been stung by outrageous tickets prices too many times

It's buses or coaches only now, I'm not surprised everyone drives here

Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#62
post #5

Good. This is wildly overdue. The privatization of public infrastructure (ex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatisation_of_British_Rail ) was a crime of the highest corruption. Edit: Link broke? Edit 2: Thank you @bogdan https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57176858

Unfortunately this isn't actual nationalisation. The railway will still be operated by private firms, this is only a transfer of franchising from the department of transport to this new "Great British Railways" department; which is a new franchising model. It's supposed to allow them to set unified fees, and have greater control over branding and speak with a unified voice, but apart from that I don't see any of the…

High fares (and they aren't that high) aren't a result of privatization; they're because of a lack of subsidy. In the UK, despite the obvious environmental benefits, subsidizing rail is politically awkward because it's regressive.

Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#63
The UK's rail "privatisation" has always been bizarre, for practical reasons.

* Because rail is vital national infrastructure, important to keeping congestion down, and needs to be accessible even to poor people, every train operator receives government subsidies.

* So travellers can buy tickets for a complex four-train itinerary and large stations can have multiple operators sharing platforms, much of the ticketing system (including the main types of ticket on offer) is centrally controlled.

* Because it would be nigh-impossible to have multiple companies trains with different prices (or different on-time performance) operating on the same route, each route is essentially a monopoly †.

* To prevent price-gouging of commuters on monopoly services, the rate of increase of ticket prices is capped by government. (And yet despite the subsidies and price caps, some train tickets remain absurdly expensive)

* It would be absurd for a company losing a rail franchise to get stuck with a bunch of trains they no longer need, or a bunch of employees in the wrong part of the country they have to fire. So when a rail franchise changes hands, the trains, drivers, stations, and station staff move with it.

* Any long-term investments in things like new trains won't pay off in the duration of a single rail franchise - so they have to be agreed with the government upfront.

* Rail workers are represented by powerful unions, and industrial disputes tank the train operators' performance numbers, so operators can't control their staffing costs - they can only wait out a long industrial dispute with government backing.

* To prevent rural communities losing their rail service (or having it reduced to unusable levels) the government tells the franchisee where the trains must stop, and how often.

* Because tracks and signals all have to be maintained to the same national standards, and often multiple trains will use the same tracks, the train operators don't own the tracks or signalling equipment. So they can't upgrade track for automation or to run more/faster/more reliable services.

* Because re-tendering a franchise is very time-consuming, train operators who under-perform are seldom replaced or punished (except by making less money than they hoped they would)

All of this means the train operators are boxed in on every side - Can't run more trains, can't run fewer trains, can't raise prices, can't change pricing models, can't embrace tech like driverless trains, can't cut staff. Their only powers seem to be choosing the train's colour scheme, taking the blame for poor performance, and giving some bigwig a fat salary.

Given that the trains have always been de-facto under state control, making that true de-jure makes sense.

† Except for one or two services like london-to-birmingham, and competition from cars and teleworking.

Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#64
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately this isn't actual nationalisation. The railway will still be operated by private firms, this is only a transfer of franchising from the department of transport to this new "Great British Railways" department; which is a new franchising model. It's supposed to allow them to set unified fees, and have greater control over branding and speak with a unified voice, but apart from that I don't see any of the…

Also this is less nationalised than ScotRail, which will actually be state run: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-564...

Can they still do that, now that the ScotRail franchise is (presumably) no more?

Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#65
post #49

Most will sympathise with public run railways (rightly or wrongly) so it is worth highlighting some positives from private companies running of the railways. The private companies have pushed for a very large increase in the number of operating trains, with around a 50% increase in the past couple of decades, they are trying to squeeze every drop possible out if the tracks. The train companies are also often making a…

> Profits are also capped so these are not potential cash cows people suspect. British tickets are expensive because the government doesn't subsidise the ticket price, which is a separate debate.

The system is capped and collared meaning their profits are guaranteed by the government as well as limited. This system incentivised them to underperform on their contract, buy assets, claim losses. When the franchise completes they liquidise and pay out big bucks to shareholders. They very much are the cash cows that people think they are.

Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#67

Note: I have spent the last 7 years working in consultancy, much of which has been involved with both Metro Rail (eg TfL) and Heavy Rail in the UK. There are certainly some messy aspects to UK Rail, but the current system was not nearly as bad as made out by some posters , and there are some very good arguments against further centralisation. A lot of the problem as I see it has been the misalignment between Network…

This isn't an area I know anything about, but is it correct to say that the points you are making are in some sense orthogonal to the nature of the ownership, i.e. public or private?

I struggle to see how much meaningful competition can be achieved, so remain unclear about the value of private ownership, but it strikes me that decentralisation is perfectly within the realm of possibility for a publicly owned entity.

Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#68
I could be mistaken but if I understand correctly, this is similar to how the TfL is run. If it is, this will be a huge boost and is a step in the right direction. TfL has its faults, but, in my experience, it is a thousand times better than anything the franchised train operators have been able to deliver.

Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#69
post #48

Hurrah! Even as a free market conservative I've long been in favour of this: bidding for the multi-year contract to operate a line is a poor proxy for (impossible) proper competition where rail users could vote with their feet and wallets. There's effectively only one operator anyway, for a given journey, it should be the state, awarding the multi-year contract to the elected government is strictly better than to a p…

I'm sorry to say, but these plans still see routes being operated by private companies awarded multiyear contracts...
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