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Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

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Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#71

Post by elcomet »

preordained wrote: post #47
elcomet wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid is highly lethal for some category of people..

Note: I corrected my comment to say "debilitating", although relatively "lethal" is probably not inaccurate. Is not the vaccine available for anyone who wants it? The point of the Yellow Fever vaccine is to get it when traveling to a country where it is prevalent and you don't have the immunity of the local population, and not to bring it back to an unprotected population.

So I'm not sure what your point is. Both diseases are dangerous.

Yellow fever vaccine is mandatory when you travel in a country with high risk.

Covid vaccine will be mandatory when you want to go in situations / places with high risk.

So why would you be against covid health pass and not yellow fever health pass ?

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#72

Post by [deleted] »

nanis wrote: post #50
mytailorisrich wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. There is no reason for people to keep being tested all the time for Covid if/when that is no longer a risk. Once/if the risk has passed this will all stop because there is neither a justification nor value for governments to continue. It's a little paranoid to claim that governments are continuously trying to create totalitarian states. Or that, in any case, they can do what they want, they can't. We already see…

> It's a little paranoid to claim that governments are continuously trying to create totalitarian states. What in human history makes you think that?

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#73

Post by yanjost »

lovasoa wrote: post #54
mlok wrote: post #52

"In the backend, it has a small SQL database which stores no personal information: just the list of invitees and their status." This status is private medical information : in France (and all Europe probably) it is illegal to store these datas, unless you use specialized "health datas secure hosting". You cannot legally do it yourself this way. French Official Documents : Health Datas Hosting : https://www.legifrance…

I don't think the status counts as medical information. It is an indication of whether you will participate to the event or not. Not participating may mean that you didn't want to participate, or that you didn't have a valid health pass. The database doesn't allow you to make the difference between the two. Otherwise, any guest list would now be "medical information".

In fact you are processing health data because you decode the QR code.

Therefore you must implement HDS valid data treatments and policy

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#74

Post by [deleted] »

skylabmelody wrote: post #58

A year ago in France the health pass was publicly dismissed by officials as a conspiracy theory that belonged to sci-fi literature. Six months later it became "well there are pros and cons". And now here we are, on the verge of enacting another CCP style measure that breaks multiple constitutional rights. I'm sickened by the accelerating pace at which we are implementing every totalitarians' wet dream. The best of 19…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#75

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 »

skylabmelody wrote: post #58

A year ago in France the health pass was publicly dismissed by officials as a conspiracy theory that belonged to sci-fi literature. Six months later it became "well there are pros and cons". And now here we are, on the verge of enacting another CCP style measure that breaks multiple constitutional rights. I'm sickened by the accelerating pace at which we are implementing every totalitarians' wet dream. The best of 19…

It's been the same pattern for all Covid measures, it's so tiring. Still I'm thankful we never ended up having age-based or disability-based curfews because it seemed to be heading that way for a while.

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#76

Post by tdeck »

iamarealperson wrote: post #2

I find the principle of a "health pass" a little disturbing. Do we want to live in a society where we have to prove something about our health in order to attend events ?

I already have to show my ID to get into some events, and that has my full name, DoB, weight, address, and organ donor status on it. Date of vaccination hardly seems more sensitive than any of those. I could certainly imagine categories of health data that raise concerns but honestly this isn't it.

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#77

Post by lovasoa »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #63
lovasoa wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the status counts as medical information. It is an indication of whether you will participate to the event or not. Not participating may mean that you didn't want to participate, or that you didn't have a valid health pass. The database doesn't allow you to make the difference between the two. Otherwise, any guest list would now be "medical information".

Positive status implies a negative test result and negative status more than strongly correlates with positive test. To me that's just semantics but in fact it is basically a medical status.

The list of participants to a sport competition has never been considered medical data (the CNIL even mentions that explicitly), even though it correlates with your medical status: you have not to be handicapped and to be healthy to run a marathon for instance.

In our case, the correlation is even thinner: a yes in the database means that you have been EITHER tested OR vaccinated, and a no means that you either haven't answered the invitation or didn't have a health pass.

In the end, I guess it would be for a judge to decide if that fits the definition of health data, but I am confident enough to leave it online.

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#78

Post by mytailorisrich »

lovasoa wrote: post #77
mytailorisrich wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Positive status implies a negative test result and negative status more than strongly correlates with positive test. To me that's just semantics but in fact it is basically a medical status.

The list of participants to a sport competition has never been considered medical data (the CNIL even mentions that explicitly), even though it correlates with your medical status: you have not to be handicapped and to be healthy to run a marathon for instance. In our case, the correlation is even thinner: a yes in the database means that you have been EITHER tested OR vaccinated, and a no means that you either haven…

> The list of participants to a sport competition has never been considered medical data

That's obviously quite different here.

> a yes in the database means that you have been EITHER tested OR vaccinated

Yes, that's extremely specific and that's why I think that's medical data.

In any case, my take is that this is complicated for no actual reason. I don't see the problem with the data contained in the 2D DOC QR code: Test result is needed, name and DOB is also needed. These are limited, reasonable data to share.

The only thing the database does is to replace test and/or vaccine details by a single flag. In effect the only information removed is indeed whether the person has been tested or vaccinated (unless a test is needed in any case). That seems of little value to me.

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#79

Post by lovasoa »

lovasoa wrote: post #77
mytailorisrich wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Positive status implies a negative test result and negative status more than strongly correlates with positive test. To me that's just semantics but in fact it is basically a medical status.

The list of participants to a sport competition has never been considered medical data (the CNIL even mentions that explicitly), even though it correlates with your medical status: you have not to be handicapped and to be healthy to run a marathon for instance. In our case, the correlation is even thinner: a yes in the database means that you have been EITHER tested OR vaccinated, and a no means that you either haven…

@mytailorisrich : How is it different from the attendance to a sport event for which you need a medical certificate ?

In addition to the added privacy, sanipasse has a very practical advantage: for event organizers, they don't have to scan the passes anymore, and for guests, they can validate their pass ahead of time, at home, instead of waiting in line for someone else to scan their pass at the entry of the event.

Re: Show HN: How does the French health pass work?

#80

Post by mam3 »

elcomet wrote: post #71
preordained wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note: I corrected my comment to say "debilitating", although relatively "lethal" is probably not inaccurate. Is not the vaccine available for anyone who wants it? The point of the Yellow Fever vaccine is to get it when traveling to a country where it is prevalent and you don't have the immunity of the local population, and not to bring it back to an unprotected population.

So I'm not sure what your point is. Both diseases are dangerous. Yellow fever vaccine is mandatory when you travel in a country with high risk. Covid vaccine will be mandatory when you want to go in situations / places with high risk. So why would you be against covid health pass and not yellow fever health pass ?

He is saying in general YF vaccine is mandatory when you PASS THROUGH a high risk country (such as kenya) BEFORE going to the coubtry requiring the vaccine (such as tanzania)
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