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UK Rail services to come under unified state control

bbc.com

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Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#41

Post by chalst »

rich_sasha wrote: post #17
carnagecity786 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately this isn't actual nationalisation. The railway will still be operated by private firms, this is only a transfer of franchising from the department of transport to this new "Great British Railways" department; which is a new franchising model. It's supposed to allow them to set unified fees, and have greater control over branding and speak with a unified voice, but apart from that I don't see any of the…

Re infrastructure, my worst memories involve commuting between Oxford and London (a major rail route in the grand scheme of things) and it breaking down a few times a month, especially in winter, due to “signalling failures”. It turns out rail signals were controlled by buried cables without adequate insulation, so when it was wet they literally stopped working. And yes, this was 21st century, not steam trains.

Indeed. At the time of privatisation, I commuted to Oxford from a small village that was 20 min train ride away. Privatisation encouraged me to make the switch to the 45 minute cycle ride, which I suppose was good for me. I do remember seeing the automated departures table being 80% filled with notices of cancelled services or trains that were over an hour late.

Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#45

Post by mytailorisrich »

fnord123 wrote: post #22
throwaway210222 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Fed, Blackwater, prisons, rail, hospitals, banks... What could possibly go wrong? This is not a universal truth. Come enjoy an African government hospital, then sample one of the listed private hospitals.

"There exists a private hospital in a country of superior quality to a public hospital in the same country" is a weak claim. Even weaker is "there exists a private hospital in the world of superior quality to a public hospital also in the world".

Private hospitals are usually nicer than public ones everywhere, but that's obviously to be expected.

However, that misses the point of state involvement in education and healthcare, which is universal access. Of course people with money will have access to (good) schools and (good) healthcare. The state is involved so that everyone has access to those services.

Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#46

Post by madaxe_again »

petepete wrote: post #35
rich_sasha wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re infrastructure, my worst memories involve commuting between Oxford and London (a major rail route in the grand scheme of things) and it breaking down a few times a month, especially in winter, due to “signalling failures”. It turns out rail signals were controlled by buried cables without adequate insulation, so when it was wet they literally stopped working. And yes, this was 21st century, not steam trains.

Until lockdown I commuted to Manchester on the Rochdale line in Leyland-branded Pacers[0]. Trains with an intended lifespan of "no more than twenty years", that are now 35-40 years old. The tickets cost £100 per month and in the years I did it, only managed to find a seat on a handful of occasions. I had to wait at the station because the train was too full more frequently than finding a seat - often they'd show up w…

£100 a month? It’s £200 return for a day for Bristol to London - and that’s if the train gets you there, and doesn’t dump you somewhere outside of Chippenham because it’s the wrong kind of sunny today and the rails have buckled, or it’s cold and the rails have frozen, or it’s raining and the train is poorly with diesel cholera. All of these are acts of god, of course, so aren’t compensatable events.

Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#47

Post by onethought »

Love to be proved wrong. But public transport's goal never was to turn a profit. It's a public good, and should be measured by its "public good"ness.

Extracting profit feels like something that disproportionately targets the poor/working class and leads to either an exploited workforce and worse service... without a reduction in overall costs.

Now this trend of a "Nationalised Brand" over a "privatised service" just feels like insult to injury...

Can capitalism hurry up and eat itself so we can try something else...

Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#48

Post by OJFord »

Hurrah! Even as a free market conservative I've long been in favour of this: bidding for the multi-year contract to operate a line is a poor proxy for (impossible) proper competition where rail users could vote with their feet and wallets.

There's effectively only one operator anyway, for a given journey, it should be the state, awarding the multi-year contract to the elected government is strictly better than to a private company where there's little/much more indirect incentive to do anything in the interest of the consumer.

You don't travel with X from A to B because you think X is great value for money and provides a really top notch service; you do it because you need to get from A to B and X happens to be the operator.

However.. I'm pessimistic... I'm sure operators will push back on 'under one brand', and argue they need this that and the other in order to differentiate themselves and effectively compete...

Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#49

Post by beck5 »

Most will sympathise with public run railways (rightly or wrongly) so it is worth highlighting some positives from private companies running of the railways.

The private companies have pushed for a very large increase in the number of operating trains, with around a 50% increase in the past couple of decades, they are trying to squeeze every drop possible out if the tracks.

The train companies are also often making a loss on these routes, commonly subsidised by foreign Europeans governments looking to expand their rail business, Dutch or Italian tax payers should be annoyed at how their taxes are being wasted.

Profits are also capped so these are not potential cash cows people suspect. British tickets are expensive because the government doesn't subsidise the ticket price, which is a separate debate.

The Public Vs private debate will continue until the end of time, the truth is there are benefits to both systems.

Disclaimer, my wife is senior in a rail franchise, as well as being left leaning, fwiw.

Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control

#50

Post by supernova87a »

I was always wondering how the experiment in British rail would write its next chapter.

The logic of privatization seemed odd to me: "You have a choice now -- if you weren't satisfied with the service you received on your trip to Manchester, you can go to Leeds instead!"

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