Sounds like it's going to be similar to the local London trains. i.e private companies running the system with "Transport for London" branding.
UK Rail services to come under unified state control
31–40 of 383 posts
Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately this isn't actual nationalisation. The railway will still be operated by private firms, this is only a transfer of franchising from the department of transport to this new "Great British Railways" department; which is a new franchising model. It's supposed to allow them to set unified fees, and have greater control over branding and speak with a unified voice, but apart from that I don't see any of the…
Re infrastructure, my worst memories involve commuting between Oxford and London (a major rail route in the grand scheme of things) and it breaking down a few times a month, especially in winter, due to “signalling failures”. It turns out rail signals were controlled by buried cables without adequate insulation, so when it was wet they literally stopped working. And yes, this was 21st century, not steam trains.
Alas this seems to be best served by bus nowadays. The buses are comfortable and cheap, and connect several places in Oxford to Victoria coach station.
Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control
#33OP's URL doesn't work for me, but the article is here:
Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control
#34Good. This is wildly overdue. The privatization of public infrastructure (ex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatisation_of_British_Rail ) was a crime of the highest corruption. Edit: Link broke? Edit 2: Thank you @bogdan https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57176858
Don't expect the people who lined their pockets during privatisation to lose any money. Do expect Tory party donors to do well in whatever actually happens.
Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately this isn't actual nationalisation. The railway will still be operated by private firms, this is only a transfer of franchising from the department of transport to this new "Great British Railways" department; which is a new franchising model. It's supposed to allow them to set unified fees, and have greater control over branding and speak with a unified voice, but apart from that I don't see any of the…
Re infrastructure, my worst memories involve commuting between Oxford and London (a major rail route in the grand scheme of things) and it breaking down a few times a month, especially in winter, due to “signalling failures”. It turns out rail signals were controlled by buried cables without adequate insulation, so when it was wet they literally stopped working. And yes, this was 21st century, not steam trains.
Until lockdown I commuted to Manchester on the Rochdale line in Leyland-branded Pacers[0]. Trains with an intended lifespan of "no more than twenty years", that are now 35-40 years old. The tickets cost £100 per month and in the years I did it, only managed to find a seat on a handful of occasions. I had to wait at the station because the train was too full more frequently than finding a seat - often they'd show up with only two carriages.
Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
This type of "privatization" doesn't make the government any smaller. There is still exactly the same amount of coercion and government control.
Building railways roads and essential national infrastructure... Coersion?
Yes. Taxing people to pay for those things requires coercion. Preventing other people from providing completing services requires coercion.
Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control
#37Good. This is wildly overdue. The privatization of public infrastructure (ex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatisation_of_British_Rail ) was a crime of the highest corruption. Edit: Link broke? Edit 2: Thank you @bogdan https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57176858
Unfortunately this isn't actual nationalisation. The railway will still be operated by private firms, this is only a transfer of franchising from the department of transport to this new "Great British Railways" department; which is a new franchising model. It's supposed to allow them to set unified fees, and have greater control over branding and speak with a unified voice, but apart from that I don't see any of the…
> this is only a transfer of franchising from the department of transport to this new "Great British Railways" department
Sounds like it's designed to further distance government and it's ministers from any sort of accountability. Just like any government owned corporation.
Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control
#38Norway's railroad also went "private" a few years ago, and have butchered it up into (not all): - we have a directorate of railway deciding where to build tracks, what providers must adhere to, their timetables etc - one government owned company building - one government owned company building and maintaining the tracks - one government owned company owning the trains - another one maintaining the trains - one govern…
It's a very similar case in Finland, case-in-point when HRT (Helsinki Region Transport) requested bids from operators to run the trains in the greater capital area (Helsinki, Espoo, Vantaa and the neighbouring municipalities).
- Rolling stock is owned by HRT
- Transport Infrastructure Agency (Väylävirasto) is responsible for the tracks and stations
Which means the bid is mainly for personnel operating the trains.
There were couple companies that placed bids for this, most of them withdrew before the end of the call, essentially leaving one competing bid along with VR's (then and now current operator).
In the end, nothing changed and VR still operates the trains using HRT's own rolling stock. The only real change going forward are the plans to have a dedicated maintenance depot for HRT's own stock, since VR does not want to have the burden of maintaining stock they don't directly own.
At least with freight, it's going to be different... right?
Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
One would hope that being a single entity at the top, they would be able to help negotiate better rates around the country .. but then as it is a government project it will probably end up more expensive!
I read the article with that question in mind, it doesn’t mention any changes to sourcing the contractors.
Here's the formal press release from the UK government:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/great-british-railways-fo...
And this is the actual document weighing in at 116 pages:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
Pages 52 and onwards: "Replacing franchising" details the exact vision on how those contracts are to be set up. It states:
> TfL Overground services and many railways across Europe, including local and regional services in Germany and Sweden, use a concession model to contract with private partners to operate trains. These contracts have been more successful than franchising in enabling operators to be held to account for running trains on time, delivering passenger satisfaction and controlling costs.
> Our new system of Passenger Service Contracts will build on this approach. Great British Railways will specify the timetables, branding, most fares and other aspects of the service and agree a fee with the competitively-procured passenger service operator to provide the service to this specification. In most contracts, fare revenue will go to Great British Railways, with operators delivering to the specification and managing their costs in doing so. Operators will take cost risk but will need to balance that with service quality, in order to be efficient while also meeting the needs of passengers.
> Operators will be held accountable and risk termination of their contracts if they are not delivering punctual, effcient and high-quality services. The government will retain its operator of last resort function to enable services to continue seamlessly for passengers in such cases, just as it did with Northern Rail in early 2020. Learning from the experience of the pandemic, it will adapt this function as the sector is reformed so that operators can be held to account more effectively to targets in their contracts and so that interventions can be made in the interests of passengers and taxpayers if this is required.
> Passenger Service Contracts should broaden interest and open up the market to new commercial partners, including those who can help to modernize and improve the railways by bringing expertise in technology and innovation. This diversity should increase competition between bidders and therefore create better outcomes for taxpayers and passengers alike.
It's a white paper on which there's a consensus: "this is how we would like to move forward". It's not a detailed business plan though. The entire thing only exists on paper at the moment. The next steps are working on a concrete implementation. Which can still deviate in many regards from this vision.
The UK already axed the franchising model late last year. There's a concrete need to replace it with a different model. That's what this paper is trying to answer. And there's a clear vote for a "concession model" over a "franchising model"
The questions you're posing are valid, but they pertain to the finer details. The answer you're going to get if you'd ask those involved would be: "we're going to figure this out in the next stage."
Re: UK Rail services to come under unified state control
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Re infrastructure, my worst memories involve commuting between Oxford and London (a major rail route in the grand scheme of things) and it breaking down a few times a month, especially in winter, due to “signalling failures”. It turns out rail signals were controlled by buried cables without adequate insulation, so when it was wet they literally stopped working. And yes, this was 21st century, not steam trains.
Alas this seems to be best served by bus nowadays. The buses are comfortable and cheap, and connect several places in Oxford to Victoria coach station.
There are nice, fast trains from Paddington to the West, including Oxford.