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Leaving Freenode for a new network

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Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#291

Post by gwillen »

Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL wrote: post #211
dTal wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>mass migration of channels ...has been happening for the past several hours. It's bedlam...

I think many are registering nicks and channels "just in case", I haven't seen true "migration" as of yet, meaning large public channels forcibly shutting down on Freenode. Let the storm calm down and then we will see where we're at. The whole conflict seems to be opinionated ops clashing over governance rather than any serious privacy related issues imo. It still might bring Freenode down in the end, who knows, but…

From what I'm seeing, everything I'm active in is moving (including my own channels) -- the old ones aren't being shut down yet, mostly because people want to give libera.chat a few days first to make sure it doesn't suffer major hiccups. But the new ones are going to be the permanent ones, I expect. (That's certainly our plan.)

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#292

Post by Lammy »

gwillen wrote: post #290
tazjin wrote: post #9

If this leads to a mass exodus from Freenode, it'll probably significantly reduce overall IRC usage. Communities will fracture, people will set up random splinter networks that will die off in a few months, and lots of open-source projects that already want to be using something Javascripty like Slack or Discord are going to use this as the motivating thing to make the switch. Personally I'm staying put on Freenode b…

I think libera.chat has successfully positioned itself as the clear successor to freenode; all the projects I'm a part of on freenode have moved / are moving there. I'm sure it's not perfect, and it's been having some teething issues with load and such (as expected). But it seems like ~100% of freenode's volunteer staff have moved over to libera.chat, so my impression is that the writing is on the wall for freenode.…

Perhaps now that there's a void to fill Freenode can hire some staff who can keep a few chat servers running stably v(._. )v

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#293

Post by Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL »

gwillen wrote: post #291
Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many are registering nicks and channels "just in case", I haven't seen true "migration" as of yet, meaning large public channels forcibly shutting down on Freenode. Let the storm calm down and then we will see where we're at. The whole conflict seems to be opinionated ops clashing over governance rather than any serious privacy related issues imo. It still might bring Freenode down in the end, who knows, but…

From what I'm seeing, everything I'm active in is moving (including my own channels) -- the old ones aren't being shut down yet, mostly because people want to give libera.chat a few days first to make sure it doesn't suffer major hiccups. But the new ones are going to be the permanent ones, I expect. (That's certainly our plan.)

Yep, 12 hours later it certainly looks that way. One channel I know migrated to OFTC, others seem to have parallel channels on Libera or are thinking about it, and might make the switch. Am registered on Libera just in case, and connected. Will go wherever my channels will end up on, even if they end up on different networks, not a problem. It's that simple.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#294

Post by jasonzemos »

dang wrote: post #268
blibble wrote: post #15

I submitted this link under the title "freenode IRC network purchased by VPN company PIA" back in 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14101538 it hit the top of the front page, and people complained about my use of the word "purchased" (including freenode staff now that seem to be extremely upset...): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14102030 needless to say the title was edited...

That's an interesting example because I don't think we'd edit the title that way now. We try to replace corporate-press-release tropes with more direct language; but of course only if we can be sure that it's true. If people in the thread were complaining about the word "purchased", that explains why we'd have changed your title. But I cringe a little to see that we put press release language like "joining forces" ba…

Dan, if you're actually one person and not some algorithm, I have to commend the visibly valiant effort you've put into this place. You got this one wrong though.

It was a different atmosphere back then; far more "grifty" a time perhaps. I need not make appeals to some Hegelian universal history for us all to see now the owl of Minerva has flown. You were duped and spread disinformation -- that's okay -- apologetics can save you.

Since you are in a position of authority and trust, ironically, just like the subjects of this very story, there is one thing you can do: Apologize.

Just apologize, and keep doing your thing. History will judge all of us far better than our downvotes.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#295

Post by juancb »

ilaksh wrote: post #266
Sebb767 wrote: post #3

It's interesting to me that the draft was censored and mentioned a buyer, while this one only talks about control. For me, it paints the situation worse. Still sad to see FreeNode fall. This will lead to a lot of split communities and dead links. EDIT: Fuchs finds some harsher words[0]: > In the past few weeks, this has changed[2], and the existance of a legal threat to freenode has become apparent. We cannot know th…

Freenode didn't fall. They just had to change to a new name. It's a better name anyway. People that are not able to adjust to a new name, you should feel sorry for them. Dang should pin an announcement about the new domain for a few weeks. Or all the subreddits and other forums the maintainers use can do something like that. The word will get out.

I think this is a matter of opinion but how is libera or libera.chat a better name than FreeNode?

How do you even pronounce that? Lee-Bear-Ah? Lee-Bera? Libra? Leebra? Liberia? That last one is a joke.

In Latin Libera is to deliver and pronounced Lee-Bera In Spanish Libera is to liberate and pronounced Lee-Bear-Ah

I can't say either of those roll off the tongue in either language and any English mispronunciation of it is just awful. Lee-brah and the like to me is about as grating as Tay-Co (taco), Jal-Ah-Peeno (jalapeño) or Ques-Aaadla (quesadilla).

This is a major loss of brand for the network. I'm sure I'll get downvoted into oblivion.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#296

Post by terrabitlock »

orblivion wrote: post #27
tazjin wrote: post #9

If this leads to a mass exodus from Freenode, it'll probably significantly reduce overall IRC usage. Communities will fracture, people will set up random splinter networks that will die off in a few months, and lots of open-source projects that already want to be using something Javascripty like Slack or Discord are going to use this as the motivating thing to make the switch. Personally I'm staying put on Freenode b…

How many would move to Matrix?

The matrix is evil. Matrix is not currently usable for full federated use https://wiki.404.city/en/XMPP_vs_Matrix The matrix protocol is not scalable, so it becomes hell for large non-profit servers and in the future the Matrix network may split into several incompatible protocols

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#297

Post by terrabitlock »

vlmutolo wrote: post #107
newvectorllc wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter? Matrix is no IRC. Fewer clients, way more complex protocol, the identity server is centralized, only one complete server implementation exists (and it seems like that's the only one that will ever exist, other attempts appear dead, despite the list on matrix.org) and worse than Freenode being owned by private capital, all of Matrix is controlled by New Vector LLC -- the protocol, the clients, and…

Even if you don't check, other people should know that this is extremely misleading. > Fewer clients, way more complex protocol This is actually a valid complaint, though it's partly due to Matrix being pretty young. The other part is that Matrix does a lot more for you than IRC (eg e2ee and federation) and those extra features require complexity. > The identity server is centralized This is a completely optional par…

>Everything is open source, so anyone is free to fork at any time.

Matrix 1

Matrix 2

Matrix 3

Matrix 4

Matrix 5

Matrix 6

Matrix 7

Matrix 8

Matrix 9

Matrix 10

Matrix ....

Matrix 999

Which clone of the matrix do you mean to use and how many messengers to install? XMPP has similar Matrix capabilities and modular architecture.

XMPP protocol surpasses the Matrix, it is clearly seen on the client for Android Conversations https://f-droid.org/en/packages/eu.siacs.conversations/

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#298

Post by terrabitlock »

zaik wrote: post #112
newvectorllc wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter? Matrix is no IRC. Fewer clients, way more complex protocol, the identity server is centralized, only one complete server implementation exists (and it seems like that's the only one that will ever exist, other attempts appear dead, despite the list on matrix.org) and worse than Freenode being owned by private capital, all of Matrix is controlled by New Vector LLC -- the protocol, the clients, and…

What about XMPP?

Today XMPP it is the best choice for federated chats, as the protocol can handle any workload successfully.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#299

Post by andrewaylett »

ValentineC wrote: post #219
andrewaylett wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may be looking for a CIO, or (in Scotland) a SCIO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charitable_incorporated_organi... . Do note, though, that it's insufficient to be a "non-profit" in order to become a "charity". Also, we have more than one type of limited company, and some are more amenable to community interest than others. A company limited by shares will likely have either concentrated or tradable owners…

> Going in the other direction, the charity I chair isn't a company at all -- we're an unincorporated association. Which isn't usually the best structure for a charity nowadays, but we make do with what we have. Is there a reason your members aren't interested in incorporating? Protection from individual liability is huge .

It's not that we're not interested, but -- as far as we're aware -- it's not as simple as incorporating our existing organisation and retaining charitable status.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#300

Post by tovej »

juancb wrote: post #295
ilaksh wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freenode didn't fall. They just had to change to a new name. It's a better name anyway. People that are not able to adjust to a new name, you should feel sorry for them. Dang should pin an announcement about the new domain for a few weeks. Or all the subreddits and other forums the maintainers use can do something like that. The word will get out.

I think this is a matter of opinion but how is libera or libera.chat a better name than FreeNode? How do you even pronounce that? Lee-Bear-Ah? Lee-Bera? Libra? Leebra? Liberia? That last one is a joke. In Latin Libera is to deliver and pronounced Lee-Bera In Spanish Libera is to liberate and pronounced Lee-Bear-Ah I can't say either of those roll off the tongue in either language and any English mispronunciation of i…

OTOH freenode sounds like freedom fries to me, like American political talk.
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