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Project Starline: Feel like you're there, together

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Re: Project Starline: Feel like you're there, together

#521

Post by foobiekr »

unethical_ban wrote: post #137
weird-eye-issue wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think it's possible 90% of this is due to the studio quality lighting, large high quality screen, good mic/speakers, and low latency network? It seems like those factors alone would get most of the way there and the 3D aspect is just a bonus. Obviously I haven't used it in person but this was just a thought since most people are used to video calls on their small phone/laptop with poor lighting, mics, etc

What I think you're trying to describe already exists as a product from Cisco called "telepresence". It is/was insanely expensive, was a permanent installation that only Cisco contracted techs could install, and did what you describe: It is a series of large, curved HD displays with desks at an appropriate distance from the screens/cameras, and copious amounts of indirect lighting from behind the setup to make each p…

I spent a year using telepresence a few times a week. It was genuinely amazing. Lifesize people 1200 miles away with audio so crisp that one of the guys was idly rubbing the edge of some papers with his thumb and I could hear it.

Re: Project Starline: Feel like you're there, together

#522

Post by freediver »

Pxtl wrote: post #128

This is cool as hell, but I have to say I feel like we're solving top-level problems when most consumers don't even seem to be getting solutions to the most basic pain-points. For me, the problem with video-calling isn't the image-quality. It's all the much more mundane technological problems - high latency, lag-spikes caused by bad ISPs, failed noise-cancellation for people who don't use headsets for audio, bad wifi…

Check https://tonari.no/

Re: Project Starline: Feel like you're there, together

#523

Post by wpietri »

varjag wrote: post #519
wpietri wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting hypothesis, but I'd need to see some data. Since you haven't experienced it, you would be buying based on hype, on the concept of 3D. As I said, I'm not arguing that the novelty is appealing. I'm saying that once people actually experience it and the novelty wears off, people stop caring. Another issue here is that this is being sold as like "being there", but it's more like "being there at a ja…

You're not winning anything with casting Skype on TV, except messing with another remote for audio controls (which is in no way immersive or often not even high quality). And yes OF COURSE I predicate buying on it actually delivering to the extent people describe it in the marketing video, it's ridiculous I have spell it out.

Casting Skype to a TV is not the only possibility Right now with off the shelf hardware one could make a great video-call station. 4k screen, 4k camera, high-quality mics and speakers. But approximately nobody does it because laptops and iPads and phones are generally good enough for them.

That to me demonstrates that, contra your initial assertion, there isn't a big market for this.

As to the last part, you've gone from "I will get it" no questions asked to what sounds like "I will get it if it checks out". But that's a big jump. You've gone from an early adopter to a mainstream purchaser. From one of those people that buys things on Kickstarter to the much, much larger group who want to see proof of value before they buy.

I think that's very reasonable, but it's exactly the kind of reasonable behavior that has killed 3D over and over in the past. By definition novelty doesn't last, so by the time mainstream purchasers might be ready, the social proof just isn't there.

Re: Project Starline: Feel like you're there, together

#525

Post by ashneo76 »

freediver wrote: post #522
Pxtl wrote: post #128

This is cool as hell, but I have to say I feel like we're solving top-level problems when most consumers don't even seem to be getting solutions to the most basic pain-points. For me, the problem with video-calling isn't the image-quality. It's all the much more mundane technological problems - high latency, lag-spikes caused by bad ISPs, failed noise-cancellation for people who don't use headsets for audio, bad wifi…

Check https://tonari.no/

This needs to be upvoted. Google no way innovated any of this. They will use their billions of dollars, combine that with free voice slave labor from Google 411 and image labor from captcha to train and lock more people in.

Tonari is an indie company, that probably can't "innovate" as fast as google.

Google is probably going to use this to start generating free video data and innovate something else later. It can be used for so many things: gait recognition AI, realistic models for facial expressions, and release that at then google conv.

To words. Fuck Google with their monopolistic BS

Re: Project Starline: Feel like you're there, together

#526

Post by ashneo76 »

allenu wrote: post #30

Really cool execution. I wonder what the lag is like. I can imagine that's one thing that would break the illusion. I know with something like Zoom I've gotten used to managing the lag over time by taking turns with the other person. However, with the "live" feel of this, there could be an uncanny valley effect if the lag is subtle, but perceptible. Another thought: this is being presented as ongoing research. I wond…

You gotta look at googles history:

GOOG 411 was free slave labor for voice sample Captcha is free OCR training first and now road sign detection and image training AMP so that google can capture the web flow in the name of improving performance

This will be data for AI models specializing in video features of humans:

"AI" generated realistic human expressions which can then be used to do so many things AI gait detection aI partial face reconstruction

These all already have further applications which are harmful and will lead to tie in with Google

And in none of the other cases above has google published their compiled dataset. They "own that"

Google is cancer

Re: Project Starline: Feel like you're there, together

#527

Post by retpirato »

speeder wrote: post #141
abhv wrote: post #2

A good friend of mine at Google is the technical lead of this project (he has a Phd Princeton, and was a professor before joining Google). I've tried it in person and it was truly amazing. They used some very fancy tech when I saw the demo, so I'm thrilled it is finally being announced and possibly shared with a larger audience. Explanation of why it is amazing: It totally fools your perception. No glasses or goggles…

I want to try this just to see what happens, if I will have again the feeling something is more real than reality. Because optometrists are illegal in my country (here only medics can decide what glasses you can use), currently I don't have stereoscopic vision, although my brain CAN do it, if I had the correct images sent to my eyes somehow. (one of my eyes muscles is slightly shorter than the other side thus the ima…

I would've never guessed Brazil (or any country for that matter) would be like that. I guess I can see why if medics depend on that for their income, but I certainly would've never guessed they would act so aggressive about it. It seems like there should be some other way for them to make enough money. There should be somebody who's specialty is optometry. Do you have specialists for other things like a heart doctor, or cancer doctor?

Re: Project Starline: Feel like you're there, together

#528

Post by speleding »

unethical_ban wrote: post #137
weird-eye-issue wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think it's possible 90% of this is due to the studio quality lighting, large high quality screen, good mic/speakers, and low latency network? It seems like those factors alone would get most of the way there and the 3D aspect is just a bonus. Obviously I haven't used it in person but this was just a thought since most people are used to video calls on their small phone/laptop with poor lighting, mics, etc

What I think you're trying to describe already exists as a product from Cisco called "telepresence". It is/was insanely expensive, was a permanent installation that only Cisco contracted techs could install, and did what you describe: It is a series of large, curved HD displays with desks at an appropriate distance from the screens/cameras, and copious amounts of indirect lighting from behind the setup to make each p…

Low latency is more important than all the other bits. I worked at Bell Communication Research in the nineties and they had an experimental video conferencing system that used analog circuit switched video and it worked really well, mainly because the latency was only a little more than the speed of light.

Re: Project Starline: Feel like you're there, together

#529

Post by varjag »

wpietri wrote: post #523
varjag wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not winning anything with casting Skype on TV, except messing with another remote for audio controls (which is in no way immersive or often not even high quality). And yes OF COURSE I predicate buying on it actually delivering to the extent people describe it in the marketing video, it's ridiculous I have spell it out.

Casting Skype to a TV is not the only possibility Right now with off the shelf hardware one could make a great video-call station. 4k screen, 4k camera, high-quality mics and speakers. But approximately nobody does it because laptops and iPads and phones are generally good enough for them. That to me demonstrates that, contra your initial assertion, there isn't a big market for this. As to the last part, you've gone…

What I enjoy here most is how you clearly know better than me (M44, immigrant, kids, MSc. SE, embedded systems engineer) what I actually want.

Re: Project Starline: Feel like you're there, together

#530

Post by niutech »

abhv wrote: post #2

A good friend of mine at Google is the technical lead of this project (he has a Phd Princeton, and was a professor before joining Google). I've tried it in person and it was truly amazing. They used some very fancy tech when I saw the demo, so I'm thrilled it is finally being announced and possibly shared with a larger audience. Explanation of why it is amazing: It totally fools your perception. No glasses or goggles…

Can you tell your friend at Google that their website weights whooping 89 MB, most of which are huge animated GIF-s? This is insane! Doesn't Google know about HTML5 video yet? https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2018/11/gif-to-video/
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