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Bitcoin’s plunge intensifies, tanks 30% to $30k in single day

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Re: Bitcoin’s plunge intensifies, tanks 30% to $30k in single day

#171

Post by 8note »

adamhp wrote: post #83
endisneigh wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can also use fiat to pay for things. what's the benefit of bitcoin compared to say, USD for paying for things? is it cheaper or faster to buy $1 trinket using bitcoin vs. paypal?

The typical argument (not one I necessarily agree with or am making) is that there is a limited supply of Bitcoin, whereas the supply of USD is controlled by US monetary policy. On the other hand, it is "decentralized", i.e. backed by the blockchain and not a political body. Again, not my arguments, but arguments I have heard.

The supply is only kinda limited though; most of it is controlled by a few accounts, and they could release more supply if they wanted to in order to do things like US monetary policy

They'd run out eventually, but you'd still have lost out

Re: Bitcoin’s plunge intensifies, tanks 30% to $30k in single day

#172

Post by 8note »

fsociety wrote: post #148
unmole wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It can hold value while your country's fiat currency doesn't. It can also spectacularly crash overnight.

Do you think fiat can’t do that?

Most of them can. The USD likely can not

Re: Bitcoin’s plunge intensifies, tanks 30% to $30k in single day

#173

Post by 8note »

sueders101 wrote: post #43
yunohn wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But almost everyone with Bitcoin live in low-inflation developed countries.

That’s incorrect. If I’m remembering correctly Nigeria was the second largest Bitcoin market pretty recently.

Second largest doesn't mean large. That could be anywhere from 1 person has a bit coin in Nigeria to just under half the bitcoins

Re: Bitcoin’s plunge intensifies, tanks 30% to $30k in single day

#174

Post by disruptalot »

cogman10 wrote: post #164
disruptalot wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Central banks don't do fixed supply money. Investment banks don't do payments and financial products that don't involve a middleman. Bitcoin is a censorship resistant, neutral money and payment network. Banks don't do that. Banks don't consume "kWh of power" by the way. From the endless wars to protect the US (dollar) hegemony to 50 floor buildings draped in marble. Thats all cost + energy.

Bitcoin couldn't exist without the same endless wars and hegemony. Where do you think the computational power COMES from? That's why it's a bad faith argument. The only thing bitcoiners want to compare is the power cost of running the mining rigs. Why don't they include the cost to manufacture said rigs? To mine minerals to build the silicon needed to power their currency? Why don't they include the governments neede…

Your arguments are just a whole load of strawmen. You don't address the central point. Bitcoin exists, and banks don't do it what it does. Hence the energy cost comparisons as rough and silly as you make them are not a conclusion to bitcoin's value.

Re: Bitcoin’s plunge intensifies, tanks 30% to $30k in single day

#175

Post by whack »

itake wrote: post #81
whack wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stock market has plunged 30% in a short period of time. Sure, it might be over a few weeks as opposed to days, but that's just a quantitative difference, not qualitative. The main value propositions behind bitcoin are: - stable store of value in its end state (minimal inflation)(note: you'll see wild fluctuations during the interim period where its future is uncertain) - not under the control of any government or…

Clearly it’s failed at being a stable value

It's impossible for any currency to be stable in the period before it gains mainstream acceptance. Fiat currencies share the same fate

Re: Bitcoin’s plunge intensifies, tanks 30% to $30k in single day

#176

Post by wmf »

3np wrote: post #109
throwaway5752 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not something I'd care to speculate over. There's a public ledger, we can find out exactly how many people bought it at every price. I don't have the inclination, but it's something that's precisely knowable.

No, you can’t. Given a transaction on the btc blockchain, how would you determine if actually changed hands (as opposed to internal/self-transfer), and if so, at what valuation? Trades on sidechains or on centralized exchanges also don’t register.

The exchanges do produce a "tape" that is analyzed by various people but you're basically taking their word that it's not fraudulent.

Re: Bitcoin’s plunge intensifies, tanks 30% to $30k in single day

#177

Post by wmf »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #96

My - surely far fetched and with no evidence to back up - take is that Musk didn't go long on BTC when he announced TSLA would buy BTC for 1.5$bn, but actually went short. Musk wanted to take TSLA off the public trading market but failed due to lack of money/investors for a buy back. Buying large amounts of BTC with TSLA money, ties the TSLA price to the BTC price. And Musk is a very smart person, he definetely knows…

That sounds super-fraudulent.

Re: Bitcoin’s plunge intensifies, tanks 30% to $30k in single day

#178

Post by maaaaattttt »

soco wrote: post #147
maaaaattttt wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When (if) speculation settles down , even if the governments know who owns bitcoins, they won't be able to "print" more of it and that's a big advantage over any other fiat currency.

Can somebody please explain me what is the big deal for me if the government cannot print more currency? I remember old readings saying that inflation was a useful tool - is this not an argument anymore?

Inflation ultimately means that the money that you own now could buy you way less than it used to or that it will buy you products of a lesser quality than it used to. And I think that we are very much seeing the effects of that. I would not be able to afford as much as I can today if I were only able to buy goods produced in my region (EU). We live under the impression that everything is fine because the decrease in purchasing power has been hidden by the fact that we buy mostly from goods produced very cheaply in the East.

Re: Bitcoin’s plunge intensifies, tanks 30% to $30k in single day

#179

Post by iabacu »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #12
iabacu wrote: post #3

Last year people would jokingly say that the headline this year would be "bitcoin crashes to 30k", and that was dismissed as stupidly bullish.

Your comment appears to be the only one in Hacker News history that says, "bitcoin crashes to 30k". Maybe the phrasing was different? It's not good when an asset class drops by 30% in 24 hours.

That was not a direct quote on anyone here or elsewhere, more like a sentiment that was around last year.

https://twitter.com/shortthebanks/status/1133735039596994560

https://twitter.com/Joe_wants_BTC/status/1316044080690929666

Dropping X% in 24h sounds bad, but without putting it in the context of the asset's historical volatility, sharpe ratio, overall portfolio construction, etc; it looks like a very superficial reading (perhaps just good enough for a headline)

Re: Bitcoin’s plunge intensifies, tanks 30% to $30k in single day

#180

Post by 8note »

somethingAlex wrote: post #75
endisneigh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

let's just skip to the end. at $DAY $COIN is at $MAX_PRICE. it never reaches $MAX_PRICE ever again. for someone who bought at $MAX_PRICE, what is the value they received?

None. It's not meant to be an investment, it just happens to be used like one currently. It's ironic, the same thing that makes these coins valuable to people (volatility, and mostly in the upwards direction) is a major reason why they are hard to use for mass transactions. However, there is some good here. People are getting familiar with crypto by participating in this investment strategy. A relatively stable coin…

Given the decentralized nature of cryptos, won't they always be used for what the richest people want them used for? They will always want to form an oligopoly
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