Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Poor in Tech

megelison.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–500 of 817 posts

Re: Poor in Tech

#491

Post by zepto »

StavrosK wrote: post #355
username90 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First point: I live in Scandinavia. Poor people are just as dumb here as in USA, but we take better care of them. USA assumes that poor people should be able to take care of themselves, which doesn't work. Taking care of them doesn't make them smarter, but it makes their lives better which is the point.

That's not about smartness or dumbness, though. I don't think intelligence is correlated with poverty much, but poverty is additional difficulty, so they have to work harder for the same thing as someone who isn't poor.

> I don't think intelligence is correlated with poverty much

This is contrary to the available science. IQ and earnings are strongly correlated.

Re: Poor in Tech

#492

Post by Kalium »

isomorph wrote: post #229
Kalium wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely right. The offhand tone many have adopted is how they might react to a purely technical piece, rather than someone's genuine pain exposed to their view. It would, after all, not be wildly out of place to react to a technically detailed root cause analysis document by questioning some of its assertions that struck readers as overreaching. For my own part, when I find myself reacting to someone's tone…

That makes sense. Regarding your final sentence - I guess I felt that for me it’s been the other way round. I feel that in most HN discussions I had silently been empathetic and not demanded any level of empathy from anyone, and clearly that was not going to work in this instance.

My key has been to engage my empathy for everyone concerned. To read an article and engage my empathy for the author and the pain some know all too well is a necessary step. Yet to assume that all other readers will do the same is perhaps a opportunity to engage in empathy for them and how different their lives might have been.

I find I'm often surprised by the actions and reactions of people I have put minimal effort into empathizing with. Sometimes I find their unexpected warmth welcoming, or their callous coldness a sickening contrast.

Some - like myself - have a learned aversion to anything that tries too hard and too overtly to tug on my heartstrings.

Re: Poor in Tech

#493

Post by kingsuper20 »

lovegoblin wrote: post #479
kingsuper20 wrote: post #473

"I knew I was the only poor person at my tech startup because nobody else ate the Hot Cheetos that were stocked in our free snack kitchen. Seaweed snacks were always empty. Nobody had those telltale red stains on their fingers but me." https://i2.wp.com/writingtheother.com/wp-content/uploads/202...

You should be a better person than you are being here.

In the interest of harvesting downvotes, I'd have to say that I'm bored with people like Ms. Elison.

Looking at this essay, and at the summaries of her books, she's obviously in the grievance porn business.

'Poor in tech' is a real thing but needs a better champion.

Shout out to the few still-sane folks out there.

Re: Poor in Tech

#494

Post by sdenton4 »

sokoloff wrote: post #392
tasuki wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many places around the world, poor people don't have "old car problems".

I think people wildly over-estimate the costs of driving an older (say 5-15 years old) car and so are prone to over-pay for a new or newer car, believing they're making a good choice based on flawed data. (They remember the time they had to dump $1200 into repairs into some old heap that isn't even shiny anymore. They don't remember that for the last 24 months in a row, they saved $450 in payments, $200 in depreciati…

(Consider also: just not owning a car. Bikes and transit for the day to day and occasional outlays for wknds in the mountains is cheaper than owning any car.)

Re: Poor in Tech

#495

Post by underdeserver »

Haruiko wrote: post #415
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another side of this which is that you and the janitor have very little common ground so while you can say hi to each other anything beyond the most basic small-talk is going to get very uncomfortable for both parties very fast. I'm not going to post my credentials on HN but I have it on good authority that these jobs suck enough without having to pretend to relate to your customer. Hello is fine but beyond t…

I'm not following your argument. You share the same space. How distant are you with other people that you can't just say hi? Does it matter if you don't discuss politics after it? When i was a kid, i had to take the bus and i forgot my bus ticket (a pupil, on one bus stop, everyday, the same bus stop the same bus driver on a school route...) and he put a lot of energy into telling me off. A few days/weeks later i tho…

The janitor knows that if he pisses you off in any way, you might complain and he would lose his job, which he probably can't afford to. Why risk it?

Re: Poor in Tech

#496

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

wlesieutre wrote: post #385
nrmitchi wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate to this guy. Not about the billionaire part, but about the goldfish part. Good to know that we at least have something in common.

> What’s great about this country is that America started the tradition where the richest consumers buy essentially the same things as the poorest. You can be watching TV and see Coca Cola, and you know that the President drinks Coca Cola, Liz Taylor drinks Coca Cola, and just think, you can drink Coca Cola, too. A coke is a coke and no amount of money can get you a better coke than the one the bum on the corner is d…

> A coke is a coke and no amount of money can get you a better coke than the one the bum on the corner is drinking.

Not strictly accurate, as you can get bottled coke made with cane sugar instead of HFCS for a bit more and it is, in fact, better.

Re: Poor in Tech

#497

Post by cryptica »

pnutjam wrote: post #462
Applejinx wrote: post #155

"Three paychecks is a month and a half of income (rent and two car payments by my fevered calculations, which never stop)" Pay attention to those last three words. This is very important. I've been on both sides too, and to me those words are like a slap in the face: stark reality. If you're poor enough (relative to the costs of your life) you are at a constant exhausting deficit because you CANNOT stop calculating a…

I noticed where the writer found out they were the lowest paid person. This is how the wealthy class really keep people from moving up. Your pay is forever tied to what you used to make. It's hard enough to break the circuit in your mind, it's near impossible to do so with your employer. At my current employer, they offered me a 10% paycut to convert from contract to FTE. I could not afford that, but I also can't aff…

>> Your pay is forever tied to what you used to make.

It's not just a psychological "avoid the subject" kind of trick. They literally refuse to give you raises no matter what. In my last job, I was likely the top developer in the company (the company had hundreds of millions of $ of runway just sitting there) and I was putting constant pressure on my boss for a raise and promotion for years (they even admitted that I was one of their top devs). Instead of trying to give me a good deal, the CTO snapped and threatened me with violence - The next day, I continued the discussion and was still pushing forward with my demands (threatening to quit) and they refused to give me anything at all. I had a nervous breakdown right there (first time ever in my entire career) and I ended up rage-quitting (it got to shouting and personal insults).

The only reason I took things this far was because I thought the system would finally yield some rewards once I showed enough initiative and ambition (backed by years of hard work and delivering great results). It didn't.

The system is completely rigged. It's an illusion that there is any kind of meritocracy. Once you really buy into all the "you control your own destiny" rhetoric and start to push yourself and others beyond the limits you thought you were capable of (when you start to impress people with your skills and ambition), you realize that it achieves nothing. It's all a big show.

"It's all a big club, and you ain't in it" - George Carlin

Re: Poor in Tech

#498

Post by ghaff »

giantg2 wrote: post #358
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah if we are talking about lunches and people on 6 figure salary this is a fairytale

A lunch between $15-20 every day is about $4k per year. That's still a large percentage of a person's after tax income even making $100k. You might want to correct Warren Buffett since he recommends packing your lunch at least 3 days per week.

If you like going to the cafeteria or out to lunch, by all means you should do so if you can afford it. But it's also entirely reasonable not to spend money out of habit. For example, while I may do so when traveling, I have zero interest in getting a daily Starbucks fix.

(I often drive by a local Starbucks which usually has a line of cars around the block getting to go. I have to wonder who these people are who want to wait for 20 minutes or whatever to get their $5 latte at all hours of the day.)

Re: Poor in Tech

#499

Post by CountDrewku »

Leave SF, problem solved. Why anyone would choose to live in a city where a closet living space costs what houses do in much of the rest of the country is beyond me.

If that's what you want then fine but don't start crying to everyone else that you can't afford a living in one of the most overpriced markets in the world and you don't fit in with the elitists.

And... the reality is that this woman's perception of poor is a standard of living that a large portion of the world doesn't even dream of. It's understandable to be upset because people only have so many experiences in their own little bubble but keep yourself in check and maybe consider that putting things like this out on the internet just make you look spoiled.

Re: Poor in Tech

#500

Post by jonemi »

sfg wrote: post #233
isomorph wrote: post #116

Many of the comments on this article are so cold. I can’t believe it. When I read the original article I was imagining all the constructive ways HN readers would interpret it and hold a mirror up to their own behaviour. Some commenters are doing this. But it surprises and depresses me how many people are commenting saying “no, this list isn’t what it says it is, it’s a list showing the author has a negative mindset /…

It's one of those articles you either relate to or don't and if you don't, you're going to pick up on the flaws. Not everyone that fails to relate will complain about those flaws, but any article designed to evoke emotions - as this one is - will inevitably stir up irritation in some, and those so stirred will complain about them. Written differently, but with the same message, it would carry more people with it, but…

I CAN relate because I grew up poor, have a GED, have student loans because my parents didn't pay for my education, live in a poorer area than my coworkers, have a really old phone, worried about bothering potential mentors, don't fit in at the gym, relish bonuses, overeat free food because it's free (pre-covid), talk to janitors, was paid less than colleagues, etc. and yet I still find her sentiment negative, classist, self-victimizing, and unhelpful.

In my opinion, this comes off as shaming privileged people for their privilege. She could probably say a lot about the hard work and lucky breaks she's had that have helped her advance in spite of her challenges, but instead she focuses exclusively on her disadvantages.

I attribute most of my social mobility to a ton of lucky breaks. Some people aren't as fortunate, and there's a lot to be said about that, but I don't think this article advances that conversation.

Post reply on HN