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Leaving Freenode for a new network

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Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#161

Post by sdm55 »

yakubin wrote: post #99
tarkin2 wrote: post #76

IRC seems like drama central. I can’t say I understand the detail of this takeover and split. But the tone of all the messages are very dramatic. Why is that? Is it something inherent in the aggregated community of mods, channels and servers? Some communities seem ripe for drama and I have no idea why.

This is the first IRC drama I'm hearing about. There is more drama in issue trackers of random GitHub projects that surface once a month on HN. I don't know where this perception of IRC comes from. Such a comment shows up under every link commenting on the matter. But it's still just one case.

This comment is September in a nutshell. IRC has fragmented itself into new networks because of olines bickering with each other since the early 1990s. Look into why EFnet, Undernet, and IRCnet (and sorta DALnet) came to pass. The history you’re confused about and that everyone else accepts as fact predates your birth, is the issue.

All one has to do to see that it hasn’t changed is read these logs. Something about getting an oline makes people think they’ve been cast in Othello and very serious, mortal stakes are on the line. It’s been pretty ridiculous since 1992 yet was very educational about power dynamics for a lot of young hackers (if you want to see who someone really is, oper them).

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#162

Post by juliend2 »

supermatt wrote: post #13

A gem from one of the linked chatlogs (Ariadne is security chair for Alpine linux and a prolific FOSS contributer): [23:07:35] i mean, i have important work to do. dealing with an IRC network is not really something i want to be doing this decade outside of fucking around for fun with IRCX [23:07:51] i have code running on two planets

> i have code running on two planets

Pretty cool. I wonder which one of her libraries (if that's what she's referring to) is being used on a Mars rover.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#163

Post by necrotic_comp »

xvilka wrote: post #160
Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL wrote: post #145

Not sure about people pushing matrix as an alternative. I tried out Matrix several weeks ago and hated everything about it. From the account creation process, shiny modern UI, channel finding options, activity level (since you are basically constantly logged in, channels with even quite a lot of users have next to no activity for days at a time), kind of activity (and most of it was really poor activity, like someone…

With Matrix there is also a lack of good lightweight clients and servers. The official client uses Electron. It will never be an alternative to the IRC with this attitude. There is a Weechat plugin but it's in Python...

My hope is that bc it's an open protocol that it'll be simple to create local bridges to services and then hook those into an irc client. I agree with the parent that Discord and Slack are absolute messes and all I want is text on a screen with hyperlinks for chat.

To that end, I tried to set a personal server up on a local box that I have running, but it didn't take. I'm surprised there aren't any good tutorials sitting around to create a local instance/bridge.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#164

Post by jacob019 »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #74

Just letting people know, if you or a project you know is looking for a new home because of this, I can hook you up with chatroom over XMPP and web + optional IRC bridging, no charge for open source or free culture: https://cheogram.com/freedomware-muc/

XMPP MUC is is fantastic, but it seems like the only public chats are for developing XMPP clients.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#165

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

RickHull wrote: post #63
bjourne wrote: post #51

I have been on Freenode for the last 10 to 20 years but I have absolutely no clue what this is all about. Neither this resignation letter nor the last explains it very well other than that the resigning staff apparently wants me to quit Freenode and join their network instead. I see no compelling reason to do so. Understanding whether there is some "substance" to this drama appears completely impossible. [removed sni…

The resignation letter says there was a hostile takeover and bad faith actions by the new owner. Most of the staff has resigned in protest. Thus, the reputation that freenode built is likely not any indication for how it will perform and behave going forward.

My understanding of Freenode's reputation is it's always been a giant bag of drama by a select few running the show. Nobody wants to see their dirty laundry, but they persist in showing us.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#166

Post by [deleted] »

xvilka wrote: post #160
Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL wrote: post #145

Not sure about people pushing matrix as an alternative. I tried out Matrix several weeks ago and hated everything about it. From the account creation process, shiny modern UI, channel finding options, activity level (since you are basically constantly logged in, channels with even quite a lot of users have next to no activity for days at a time), kind of activity (and most of it was really poor activity, like someone…

With Matrix there is also a lack of good lightweight clients and servers. The official client uses Electron. It will never be an alternative to the IRC with this attitude. There is a Weechat plugin but it's in Python...

[deleted]

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#167

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

IceWreck wrote: post #5

I just got a message from the staff on freenode: [Global Notice] Hi all. It feels like my moral responsibility to inform all users that administrative control of freenode and its user data will soon change hands, and I will be resigning from freenode staff effective immediately. It's been an honour to help you all. Sad to see a hostile takeover of Freenode. Its controlled by Private Internet Access now.

This is what's known as a "flounce".

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#168

Post by cle »

rsync wrote: post #159
bsedlm wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are they saying Andrew Lee got an NSL for freenode? no of course they are not saying that, they would be punished if they did (because it would be illegal). now, that such a thing exists in a "democracy"... is a topic on its own broader scope.

"... now, that such a thing exists in a "democracy"... is a topic on its own broader scope." In other news, the rsync.net Warrant Canary turned 15 years old last month: https://twitter.com/rsyncnet/status/1387090538273206274

Are these reliable? Can a judge compel someone to continue publishing a canary to prevent leaking the information?

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#169

Post by metroholografix »

Thorentis wrote: post #16

Perhaps this could be the rise of Matrix many of us have been waiting for? I hope many freenode channel operators and admins encourage people in that direction, rather than trying to start alternative IRC networks that will die out.

I've been using IRC for 25 years and Matrix is close to unusable for me. There is something to be said about the combination of text-only, barrier to entry perfectly calibrated, hostile to mobile devices protocol features that make IRC such a resilient/long-standing solution.

No matter what happens with freenode, the same people that have been using IRC for decades will keep on using IRC.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#170

Post by upofadown »

zaik wrote: post #112
newvectorllc wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter? Matrix is no IRC. Fewer clients, way more complex protocol, the identity server is centralized, only one complete server implementation exists (and it seems like that's the only one that will ever exist, other attempts appear dead, despite the list on matrix.org) and worse than Freenode being owned by private capital, all of Matrix is controlled by New Vector LLC -- the protocol, the clients, and…

What about XMPP?

That would be XMPP MUC (Multi User Conference). It has TLS encryption to the single server used by default. End to end encryption works in the form of OMEMO at least but I don't think it scales very well to lots and lots of connected users. I think PGP would also have the same sort of scaling problem. It has IRC like moderation and channel control stuff.There are a lot of light weight clients for it in the form of generic XMPP clients.

There is a project currently active to make some sort of replacement.

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