Poor in Tech • Hacker News Board

Re: Poor in Tech

#371

Post by leoc » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

Tade0 wrote: post #106

I read the whole thing trying to find something I could relate to, as I grew up in a place that was a proper third world country as recently as in the 90s. This appears to be American poor - which I think is in its own category, because comparing to American rich it's just so much worse off. It's not that she's necessarily materially poor. It's just that there's no one around who can even begin to understand her pred…

Well, if most accounts are correct, being "American poor" means you may have to endure, or at least seriously worry about, things like frequently missing meals, going without important and relatively basic healthcare, being forced to live in a dangerous neighbourhood, and even homelessness. It might not make you one of the world's poorest people, but it seems you can quite easily experience a pretty meaningful level of absolute poverty in the US, not just find yourself poorer than others in the country. And this is worsened by the fact that certain "non-essential" things like mobile phone service, Internet access or even a working and fuelled-up automobile may be essential to keeping your access to paid work.

Re: Poor in Tech

#372

Post by nerdponx » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

bsanr2 wrote: post #273

Applejinx wrote: post #155

"Three paychecks is a month and a half of income (rent and two car payments by my fevered calculations, which never stop)" Pay attention to those last three words. This is very important. I've been on both sides too, and to me those words are like a slap in the face: stark reality. If you're poor enough (relative to the costs of your life) you are at a constant exhausting deficit because you CANNOT stop calculating a…

Tl;dr Poor people (and racial and ethnic minorities, and women, and queer folk) are not dumb. They just have to turn their equal cognitive resources towards things other (and more fundamental to survival) than their magnum opus/business idea/etc. Those who overcome this are HIGHLY effective, but it's not fair that we ask it of them. That's not how an effective or efficient or just society runs, and we leave money on…

Well-said.

Can you blame the author for being overweight and not wanting to put up with feeling self-conscious at the gym? Being poor can push you to your limits even just trying to survive every day, not to mention be an effective worker, and being a good parent/spouse/partner/friend/family/etc to whoever is in your life. Doing 45 minutes of cardio while also feeling like an outsider is just not in the time or energy budget.

Re: Poor in Tech

#373

Post by username90 » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

sophacles wrote: post #364

username90 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the solution is to acknowledge that they are dumb and therefore focus resources with the assumption that they are dumb. USA assumes that poor people are smart, Europe assumes poor people are dumb. The European way is much better, and yes poor people in American are dumb, just like they are in Europe.

So your intelligence is based on how much money your parents made? Your intrinsic ability to be educated is a function of someone else's wallet? Something seems off in this statement. I wish your parents had money, then your statement would probably be coherent!

No, intelligence is mostly inherited. If your biological parents were smart then you will almost surely be smart and vice versa. And smart people end to earn more money, so intelligence is indirectly correlated with parental wealth. But when you put kids from poor parents into rich households they will continue to do poorly. They do a bit better, but their biological parents still matters more.

If it was easy to produce smart kids then we would already do it, since smart people are so much more valuable to society the small amounts it requires to add that extra value would be nothing. But no country has managed to do this so far, its just a slow climb that follows the same trend in every western society no matter what policies they implemented.

Re: Poor in Tech

#374

Post by hocuspocus » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

wdb wrote: post #334

hocuspocus wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. I know my share of wealthy people and nobody does that. Especially when you have plenty of vacation days to use anyway. Las Vegas is 14-15h away from most European hubs. NYC is 8h. Even the best case scenario (first class and the airline staff walks you through immigration) means 10h door-to-door.

Bachelor parties or Boys weekends in Las Vegas is quite common for Londoners in some circles. Leave Friday and come back to work on Monday morning. It's not much different from a weekend Crete or Canary Islands or Weekend away in the Caribbean

That's certainly not the behavior of plenty of people.

If you have this kind of disposable income, why not take a few days off?

Re: Poor in Tech

#375

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

kls wrote: post #264

isomorph wrote: post #116

Many of the comments on this article are so cold. I can’t believe it. When I read the original article I was imagining all the constructive ways HN readers would interpret it and hold a mirror up to their own behaviour. Some commenters are doing this. But it surprises and depresses me how many people are commenting saying “no, this list isn’t what it says it is, it’s a list showing the author has a negative mindset /…

So the article resounded with me, because being raised by my grandparents on a family citrus farm during the transition thru the NAFTA years and watching my family loose what little land wealth they had. It left an indelible mark, a mark of insecurity and fear and it lead to behavior like this. I remember one time, when I just started out in tech, I went to an interview for a group that was contracting for NASA, the…

Great story, helps me see the profound effect that such stresses put on a person.

I got another clue out of it. That 'personal friend' was a user, a manipulator, a predator, and preyed upon folks like us. She must have felt something personal toward you else she'd never have said what she did and given up the raw deal she pushed over on you. To threaten to quit and get offered double - that's a situation to run from as fast as you can. Get double from the next person, but never, ever work for such a person as that again. That's my take anyway.

Re: Poor in Tech

#376

Post by awhitby » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

ryanbrunner wrote: post #186

tome wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are indoor rock climbing and adult soccer known to be especially expensive activities? I haven't done much indoor rock climbing, but I've done a lot of adult soccer, mostly for free.

Indoor rock climbing for sure. A gym will cost you at least $50 a month (where I am, but I doubt it's that much different elsewhere), and the equipment costs aren't astronomical but do add up, especially compared to "cheap" sports (at least $200 for shoes / harness, and additional gear depending on what sort of climbing you want to do).

At least. NYC is more than double that: $120-130 a month.

Re: Poor in Tech

#377

Post by StavrosK » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

maury91 wrote: post #209

I'm from a "poorish" family, but from Europe. Some stuff is relatable some is not: - People ordering lunch always felt weird for me, in my mind I think "why should I pay 10€ for a bowl of salad, when I can go to the grocery store below the office and have the same for 1€", or even better pay 70 cents for the raw vegetables, wash them and chop them in the office and they will last 3 days - Student debt doesn't apply,…

> - The part of stealing I don't find relatable, even when my bank account was empty I would never resort to stealing, must be some honour system I grew up with

Do you mean the last bit about the Macbook and the headphones, or the bit about the snacks? The snacks were more of a "it is fundamentally impossible to steal cheap stuff because we have infinite cheap stuff, why do you even care that someone took it!" mindset.

Re: Poor in Tech

#378

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

pracer wrote: post #346

_r0fz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only got into tech a bit over five years ago and that was the first time in my entire life I had been above the (demonically low) US poverty level. There is absolutely a difference in how rich and poor people treat poor service workers. It's not that poor people treat them better per se but it's different. Poor people can be cruel to each other because they are all suffering, crab in a bucket shit. Rich people most…

"Rich people mostly ignore poor people because visible poverty makes them uncomfortable so they look away. They hate themselves if they see our humanity so they try not to." It has to be amazing having such a simple world model. Or better yet, being able to know the deepest ideas and thoughts in other people's minds and to explain their behaviour. Going back to seriousness, and leaving sit-com cliches aside, do you h…

[deleted]

Re: Poor in Tech

#379

Post by nickd2001 » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

Not talking to the cleaning person is just rude and mean. Seems to me if no-one else in the office does it, that's an opportunity to be the person that changes things. If one person starts talking to the cleaning lady/man, other people probably will. Or if they look at you weird for doing so (yeah to be honest this sadly did happen to me) then ** 'em, they need to learn. As for free stuff, hey, if the company wants to give away free stuff, its our moral duty to use it, right? ;) If like the author we're struggling to make ends meet, then we should take whatever free stuff we can use. If we don't technically "need" it, well how about pass it on to someone else who does. Or give extra money to charity. Really, why be embarassed to be the only person using free stuff. Will people really deep down judge you? If they really do, go work somewhere else with better people ;)

Re: Poor in Tech

#380

Post by Flow » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

I grew up poor(but no longer am). I can sympathize with some of the things she wrote, but not very many. I too talk to the janitor and cleaners. I once had a job like that.

What strikes me is that she describes a work-life that are quite a few years long, perhaps even decades, and she still is dirt poor apparently.

I know that no-one just gives money away, but how come she lives a frugal life and after years of working still is extremely poor?

Her writing makes me think she thinks like a beaten dog. Either she is exaggerating/lying or she has some other problems that are not actually money-related.