Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

cantorsparadise.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 76 posts

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#41

Post by pmoriarty »

abnry wrote: post #28

Great people are warranted discussion, but as someone who was once in the academic math world, I had to quit reading after a few sentences. Genius is a very real thing, but I don't need to read adulation after adulation in a series of anecdotes and quotes that will only make me feel inadequate. The mathematics itself is greater than the mathematician, who himself craps on the toilet like anyone else. Focus on the mat…

"Focus on the math, not the mathematician."

Do you think von Neumann's education might have had anything to do with what he was able to achieve?

How about how he was raised by his parents?

Or how about his work ethic, motivation, and attitude towards discovery?

How about the people that he admired and that influenced him?

Learning these things might help us to raise future extraordinary achievers, or might even help us with our own lives/work.

You will not find any of these things in his mathematics, but you might learn about them by studying his life.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#42

Post by bananabiscuit »

insickness wrote: post #26
JetSetWilly wrote: post #18

> In fact, von Neumann claimed to do some of his best work in noisy, chaotic environments such as in the living room of his house with the television blaring. I often think of this when people claim it is impossible to conceive of any advanced thought in an open office or noisy environment. In fact, it is just a personal preference and one environment isn't necessarily any better than another.

Actually it is not just personal preference. I remember reading studies that show that school children perform worse when there is background noise. Here's one article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/ulterior-motives/201...

I’m not trying to single you out but I think you are making an incredibly common mistake that I see everyone make all the time, and it almost never gets called out, so I’m going to do it here now:

Just because a study finds that some cause, on average, has some effect, I don’t think it is correct to start believing that that cause and effect will hold for you or any else in particular.

I’m convinced that for you noise is distracting, and that it is probably the case for most people, but I also totally believe that for some people it can work the other way around. I don’t think you can use the aggregate result of a study to argue against somebody else’s personal experience.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#43

Post by the_only_law »

abnry wrote: post #28

Great people are warranted discussion, but as someone who was once in the academic math world, I had to quit reading after a few sentences. Genius is a very real thing, but I don't need to read adulation after adulation in a series of anecdotes and quotes that will only make me feel inadequate. The mathematics itself is greater than the mathematician, who himself craps on the toilet like anyone else. Focus on the mat…

> The mathematics itself is greater than the mathematician, who himself craps on the toilet like anyone else. Focus on the math, not the mathematician. It will make you happier.

To each his own I guess, but personally I don’t want to waste my time on something I’m not good at nor do I have the capability to be good at.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#44

Post by flaubere »

MikeUt wrote: post #21
idbehold wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould

Gould is known for placing ideology ahead of science, so it's refreshing that he admits as much. Stephen F. Blinkhorn, a senior lecturer in psychology at the University of Hertfordshire, wrote that The Mismeasure of Man was "a masterpiece of propaganda" that selectively juxtaposed data to further a political agenda. [..] Jensen also criticized Gould for concentrating on long-disproven arguments (noting that 71% of th…

Gould wrote a controversial book attacking whole swathes of science done in the past. The existence of a senior lecturer at the University of Hertfordshire who has written a criticism of it doesn't seem that surprising and certainly doesn't seem sufficient evidence that we should disregard what he has to say.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#45

Post by bryanrasmussen »

insickness wrote: post #26
JetSetWilly wrote: post #18

> In fact, von Neumann claimed to do some of his best work in noisy, chaotic environments such as in the living room of his house with the television blaring. I often think of this when people claim it is impossible to conceive of any advanced thought in an open office or noisy environment. In fact, it is just a personal preference and one environment isn't necessarily any better than another.

Actually it is not just personal preference. I remember reading studies that show that school children perform worse when there is background noise. Here's one article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/ulterior-motives/201...

I find noise distracting when things are not working, and I believe they should be working, and this process has been going on for a while. Otherwise I find noise sort of calming.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#46

Post by pmoriarty »

insickness wrote: post #26
JetSetWilly wrote: post #18

> In fact, von Neumann claimed to do some of his best work in noisy, chaotic environments such as in the living room of his house with the television blaring. I often think of this when people claim it is impossible to conceive of any advanced thought in an open office or noisy environment. In fact, it is just a personal preference and one environment isn't necessarily any better than another.

Actually it is not just personal preference. I remember reading studies that show that school children perform worse when there is background noise. Here's one article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/ulterior-motives/201...

On the other hand, there is evidence that a certain amount of noise helps creativity: [1], [2]

[1] - https://medium.com/s/how-to-design-creative-workspaces/how-n...

[2] - http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/665048

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#47

Post by bryanrasmussen »

voldacar wrote: post #34
spacechild1 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let uber geniuses run the nation's courts, monetary policy, tax laws, environmental protection programs, and defense planning and acquisition. You might want to read up on his political views in general and his role in the creation of the atomic bomb in particular. He wanted to drop the bomb on Kyoto (the historical cultural center of Japan) and actively supported a preventive nuclear strike against Russia. What's…

You are assuming the point you are trying to prove: that von Neumann was unjustified in advocating for these things. Maybe he was just smarter than you (and me) and just had a really good argument for believing those things, given the state of the world at the time and his various priors. Also, humans have created thousands of different and highly contradictory systems of morality over the past several thousand years…

It is very difficult to conceive of Japan having turned out any better if Kyoto had been destroyed.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#48

Post by eointierney »

abnry wrote: post #28

Great people are warranted discussion, but as someone who was once in the academic math world, I had to quit reading after a few sentences. Genius is a very real thing, but I don't need to read adulation after adulation in a series of anecdotes and quotes that will only make me feel inadequate. The mathematics itself is greater than the mathematician, who himself craps on the toilet like anyone else. Focus on the mat…

As a counter, I absolutely love reading about these extraordinary individuals. To be sure their intellectual standing and productivity is almost overwhelming, such that I have to study hard just to appreciate the foothills of the mountains they sprang among like heavenly goats, but their humanity, their joi-de-vivre, and most especially their historical context is hugely worthwhile knowing.

Reading of the achievements of others doesn't make me feel inadequate, rather it fills me with hope and real joy.

Yes, Mathematics is greater than mathematicians, but never forget our mathematics is still profoundly and inescapably human, and none the worse for it. Read more Mathematics!

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#49

Post by bryanrasmussen »

stared wrote: post #31
rybosworld wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Von Neumann had a uniquely sharp mind. His daughter was very successful and seemingly above average intelligence, but it's not clear that she had his same potential. I do think it's too bad that the brightest minds don't tend to have a lot of offspring.

It is called "regression towards the mean" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean ). If someone is at a particular extreme, and the trait is hereditary in less than 100% (biologically or cultural), it is likely that their offsprings will be less extreme. On the contrary - I find it sad that more intelligent and more accomplished people have fewer offsprings on average than others. While the proces…

twice in a row really, I'd say Camacho was as smart as Joe - he just didn't come from a society that knew to use water for irrigating crops.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#50

Post by voldacar »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #47
voldacar wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming the point you are trying to prove: that von Neumann was unjustified in advocating for these things. Maybe he was just smarter than you (and me) and just had a really good argument for believing those things, given the state of the world at the time and his various priors. Also, humans have created thousands of different and highly contradictory systems of morality over the past several thousand years…

It is very difficult to conceive of Japan having turned out any better if Kyoto had been destroyed.

I agree, but I think there are many ways of arguing that the destruction of Kyoto was justified at the time that do not involve arguing that it would make Japan better off. And like I said, there is more than one theory of morality :)
Post reply on HN