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Leaving Freenode for a new network

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Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#121

Post by fmajid »

bsedlm wrote: post #88
EE84M3i wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the existance of a legal threat to freenode has become apparent. We cannot know the substance of this legal threat as it contains some kind of gag order preventing its broader discussion within staff. Is there any more context about this? I'd be interested to read logs. Are they saying Andrew Lee got an NSL for freenode?

> Are they saying Andrew Lee got an NSL for freenode? no of course they are not saying that, they would be punished if they did (because it would be illegal). now, that such a thing exists in a "democracy"... is a topic on its own broader scope.

Apparently it’s in the UK, where judges are prompt to issue “superinjunctions” where even discussing the injunction is contempt of court and can incur a prison sentence.

Whether a monarchy without a written constitution, or separation of Church and State can be considered a democracy is left as an exercise to the reader.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#122

Post by weinzierl »

vurpo wrote: post #84
pmoriarty wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"they can keep track of your phone number or email address and map it to your Matrix ID" Damn. Fuck that. My phone number and email is none of their business. It's so dispiriting to see every form of communication on the internet moving to ever more spying on their users.

The Matrix identity server system is entirely optional to use, and basically a separate system from the rest of Matrix. The reason for that is that there's not really any way to implement that specific feature in a decentralized way, so they did the next best thing by making it a centralized server that you can choose to use (opt-in) in case you want people to be able to find your Matrix ID based on your phone number…

> The Matrix identity server system is entirely optional to use,

I remember that I gave my email when I signed up for Matrix at element.io but haven't found a way how to find out if I'm using the identity server. If my email ended up there, how can I see if it is public? How do I actually query the identity system for information, especially which information it has about myself?

I have tried to find this out, but it is not obvious at all and I could not find much information except the repeated statement that the identity system is optional. Any hints about the identity system are appreciated.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#123

Post by baryphonic »

bjourne wrote: post #51

I have been on Freenode for the last 10 to 20 years but I have absolutely no clue what this is all about. Neither this resignation letter nor the last explains it very well other than that the resigning staff apparently wants me to quit Freenode and join their network instead. I see no compelling reason to do so. Understanding whether there is some "substance" to this drama appears completely impossible. [removed sni…

The key point seems to be that the new owner wants to harvest user data. If I were one of the staff commanded to violate users' expectations, I might also resign in protest.

That being said, sifting that out from the messaging they've presented was not easy. Most of it seems like either posturing for negotiation (e.g. the line "I have code running on two planets," which is admittedly a strong statement, albeit less impressive once examined critically) or just dunking on the new owner for the amusement of Twitter followers and maybe a few people on HN. Regardless, most of it seems to be targeting an audience who already agrees with them, and not to inform and persuade those of us who don't know.

If leaking IRC logs is the tactic du jour, it'd be much more effective if we had IRC logs where the disgruntled staffers repeatedly questioned the new owner about the substantive actions they have an issue with (e.g. harvesting user data for commercial purposes), and either got him to back down, admit or evade. That would tell a story that can transcend internecine organizational politics and/or tribalism. But, alas, the medium is the message, and so we get Twitter dunking.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#125

Post by xfitm3 »

atatatat wrote: post #80
newvectorllc wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter? Matrix is no IRC. Fewer clients, way more complex protocol, the identity server is centralized, only one complete server implementation exists (and it seems like that's the only one that will ever exist, other attempts appear dead, despite the list on matrix.org) and worse than Freenode being owned by private capital, all of Matrix is controlled by New Vector LLC -- the protocol, the clients, and…

As opposed to NickServ, which is the centralized point of failure for 90+% IRC users, and easily has top 10 worst UX I've come across in my career.

I happen to like nickserv's UX. There are far worse UIs on the web. Simple is good.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#126

Post by thih9 »

blibble wrote: post #15

I submitted this link under the title "freenode IRC network purchased by VPN company PIA" back in 2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14101538 it hit the top of the front page, and people complained about my use of the word "purchased" (including freenode staff now that seem to be extremely upset...): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14102030 needless to say the title was edited...

> needless to say the title was edited...

Congrats on spotting the danger early. Still, I support editing the title back to the original. Avoiding editorialised titles is important, it means that opinions are shared in comments and it's easier to have a neutral discussion.

Back then you were right about the purchase but it seems that you weren't able to get your point across to the others; I wish people listened more and I also wish you talked more.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#127

Post by kawsper »

icy wrote: post #21

Made the switch. I quite like the short cloaks: icy (znc@user/icy) Staff are a little overloaded, understandably. Nickserv works, so now's the time to grab that nick you couldn't get on Freenode!

It seems like there's something wrong with NickServ:

> 15:56 -NickServ(NickServ@services.libera.chat)- Sending email failed, sorry! Registration aborted

It's probably just busy with the influx of new people :-)

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#128

Post by Macha »

xfitm3 wrote: post #125
atatatat wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to NickServ, which is the centralized point of failure for 90+% IRC users, and easily has top 10 worst UX I've come across in my career.

I happen to like nickserv's UX. There are far worse UIs on the web. Simple is good.

The fact that nickserv is just another user and you can't be sure the network had taken precaution to avoid another using swiping the name in the event of a services outage is a problem. Add to that the (now admittedly rare) networks that don't use any form of nickserv and the phishing potential for users that don't realise that

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#129

Post by stryan »

joepie91_ wrote: post #92
delfinom wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, people used IRC because you could remain anonymous (with IP leakage being the only real issue). Matrix seems like a FBI honeypot asking you for email and phone number.

As stated above, these are completely optional and only used for contact discovery (and password resets in the case of e-mail). Edit: Though I believe that matrix.org requires an e-mail address nowadays. But most homeservers don't.

matrix.org does not, though it does have a prompt for e-mail on registration page. There's a line of text under it explaining that this is for optional opt-in contact discovery and password resets.

Re: Leaving Freenode for a new network

#130

Post by synergy20 »

freenode is like a public utility for many developers, now one person with some cash suddenly owns it.

maybe from now on each well-known essential OSS project like freenode should have a donation page and make it clear, unless it has enough fund to continue operations for the year its service will have to pause, so it can be self-sustainable for good.

and yes make it a non-profit for tax purposes.

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