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The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

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Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#31

Post by stared »

rybosworld wrote: post #4
HenryKissinger wrote: post #2

How much of our global technological progress can be attributed to a handful of geniuses who happened to be at the right time and place? How much more backward would the world be if the likes of Newton and Von Neumann hadn't existed? I unironically believe that the government should dig up his body, retrieve DNA samples, and clone him. Populate federal labs and agencies with Von Neumann clones. Sell a few to FAAMNG t…

Von Neumann had a uniquely sharp mind. His daughter was very successful and seemingly above average intelligence, but it's not clear that she had his same potential. I do think it's too bad that the brightest minds don't tend to have a lot of offspring.

It is called "regression towards the mean" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean). If someone is at a particular extreme, and the trait is hereditary in less than 100% (biologically or cultural), it is likely that their offsprings will be less extreme.

On the contrary - I find it sad that more intelligent and more accomplished people have fewer offsprings on average than others. While the process is not surprising socially, either there is no hereditary factors in intellectual abilities at all (which does not hold water), or step by step, we decline. Let's hope that technological augments to our mental capabilities develop faster than the biological process.

Once I compared the trajectory to "Idiocracy" (from 2006). Yet, a friend said it is an optimistic movie - since they still choose the smartest person as their president.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#32

Post by nahuel0x »

yesenadam wrote: post #13
spacechild1 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let uber geniuses run the nation's courts, monetary policy, tax laws, environmental protection programs, and defense planning and acquisition. You might want to read up on his political views in general and his role in the creation of the atomic bomb in particular. He wanted to drop the bomb on Kyoto (the historical cultural center of Japan) and actively supported a preventive nuclear strike against Russia. What's…

> actively supported a preventive nuclear strike against Russia. Well, even Bertrand Russell, who protested against war from WWI to the Vietnam War, advocated a preemptive nuclear strike against the USSR in 1954. The risk of nuclear war killing everyone, once the USSR had nukes, just seemed too great, I guess.

For the curious, check this essay "Did Russell Advocate Preventive Atomic War against the USSR?": https://mulpress.mcmaster.ca/russelljournal/article/download...

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#33

Post by MaxBarraclough »

abnry wrote: post #28

Great people are warranted discussion, but as someone who was once in the academic math world, I had to quit reading after a few sentences. Genius is a very real thing, but I don't need to read adulation after adulation in a series of anecdotes and quotes that will only make me feel inadequate. The mathematics itself is greater than the mathematician, who himself craps on the toilet like anyone else. Focus on the mat…

> Focus on the math, not the mathematician. It will make you happier.

Personally I don't feel inadequate when reading about someone like von Neumann, as I'm not really tempted to compare myself to him in the first place. Colleagues are peers, people I graduated with are peers, but von Neumann is almost like another species.

I forget who it was who pointed out that Silicon Valley billionaires tend to dress like 'normal people', in sharp contrast to aristocrats. People don't tend to feel poor for comparing themselves against the Queen, as they perceive too much distance to make a personal comparison.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#34

Post by voldacar »

spacechild1 wrote: post #10
HenryKissinger wrote: post #2

How much of our global technological progress can be attributed to a handful of geniuses who happened to be at the right time and place? How much more backward would the world be if the likes of Newton and Von Neumann hadn't existed? I unironically believe that the government should dig up his body, retrieve DNA samples, and clone him. Populate federal labs and agencies with Von Neumann clones. Sell a few to FAAMNG t…

> Let uber geniuses run the nation's courts, monetary policy, tax laws, environmental protection programs, and defense planning and acquisition. You might want to read up on his political views in general and his role in the creation of the atomic bomb in particular. He wanted to drop the bomb on Kyoto (the historical cultural center of Japan) and actively supported a preventive nuclear strike against Russia. What's…

You are assuming the point you are trying to prove: that von Neumann was unjustified in advocating for these things. Maybe he was just smarter than you (and me) and just had a really good argument for believing those things, given the state of the world at the time and his various priors.

Also, humans have created thousands of different and highly contradictory systems of morality over the past several thousand years. You would probably be better off not believing that you have discovered the Correct Theory of Morality.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#35

Post by DalasNoin »

meroes wrote: post #14
HenryKissinger wrote: post #2

How much of our global technological progress can be attributed to a handful of geniuses who happened to be at the right time and place? How much more backward would the world be if the likes of Newton and Von Neumann hadn't existed? I unironically believe that the government should dig up his body, retrieve DNA samples, and clone him. Populate federal labs and agencies with Von Neumann clones. Sell a few to FAAMNG t…

On the contrary: "Many generations of graduate students who might have been tempted to try to construct hidden-variables theories were beaten into submission by the claim that von Neumann, 1932, had proved that it could not be done. A few years later (see Jammer, 1974,p.273) Grete Hermann, 1935, pointed out a glaring deficiency in the argument, but she seems to have been entirely ignored. Everybody continued to cite…

Interesting citation, I had heard of John Bell's theorem, which disproves local hidden variable theories. But I did not know that von Neumann had his own attempt at disproving these theories. Researching this a little further, I also found people arguing that von Neumanns arguments were misconstrued by Bell. https://arxiv.org/abs/1006.0499 I wonder how Grete Hermann's arguments compare to the arguments from Bell and what the real truth is.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#37

Post by mabbo »

> “There was a seminar for advanced students in Zürich that I was teaching and von Neumann was in the class. I came to a certain theorem, and I said it is not proved and it may be difficult. von Neumann didn’t say anything but after five minutes he raised his hand. When I called on him he went to the blackboard and proceeded to write down the proof. After that I was afraid of von Neumann” — George Pólya

If you put that scene in a film, people would call it unbelievable.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#38

Post by spaetzleesser »

JetSetWilly wrote: post #18

> In fact, von Neumann claimed to do some of his best work in noisy, chaotic environments such as in the living room of his house with the television blaring. I often think of this when people claim it is impossible to conceive of any advanced thought in an open office or noisy environment. In fact, it is just a personal preference and one environment isn't necessarily any better than another.

I think it's about choice and control. I often listen to podcast interviews while working from home but it drives me crazy to have other people talking next to me or walking by behind me when I have to work in a cube.

I can turn off the podcast when I want to but not the people talking next to me.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#39

Post by flaubere »

HenryKissinger wrote: post #2

How much of our global technological progress can be attributed to a handful of geniuses who happened to be at the right time and place? How much more backward would the world be if the likes of Newton and Von Neumann hadn't existed? I unironically believe that the government should dig up his body, retrieve DNA samples, and clone him. Populate federal labs and agencies with Von Neumann clones. Sell a few to FAAMNG t…

Although von Neumann was certainly a genius who happened to be in the right place at the right time, he's also an example of how groups of people can create a culture seemingly much more important than the effect of one outstanding individual. Lipót Fejér led a school of analysis at Eötvös Loránd University in Budapest. He ran a seminar, was the centre of a large group of young mathematicians who worked together and was enormously influential.

Hungary has a disproportionate number of the world class mathematicians of the 20th century. The numbers are even more extreme when you consider that those mathematicians are all from Budapest, all from Eötvös, and the vast majority of them Fejér's supervisees. It's totally plausible that Fejér created an environment where people who might otherwise have been middling mathematicians, decent engineers, or never have found their niche, were transformed, by collaboration and inspiration, into the likes of von Neumann, Erdős, Pólya.

Even today the Eötvös school of analysis and combinatorics is a significant powerhouse, with most members direct mathematical descendants from Fejér. And there are other branches such as Cambridge combinatorialists where the influence of Fejér's students and grand-students has been key in the formation of world class mathematicians.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#40

Post by abnry »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #33
abnry wrote: post #28

Great people are warranted discussion, but as someone who was once in the academic math world, I had to quit reading after a few sentences. Genius is a very real thing, but I don't need to read adulation after adulation in a series of anecdotes and quotes that will only make me feel inadequate. The mathematics itself is greater than the mathematician, who himself craps on the toilet like anyone else. Focus on the mat…

> Focus on the math, not the mathematician. It will make you happier. Personally I don't feel inadequate when reading about someone like von Neumann, as I'm not really tempted to compare myself to him in the first place. Colleagues are peers, people I graduated with are peers, but von Neumann is almost like another species. I forget who it was who pointed out that Silicon Valley billionaires tend to dress like 'norma…

> Personally I don't feel inadequate when reading about someone like von Neumann, as I'm not really tempted to compare myself to him in the first place. Colleagues are peers, people I graduated with are peers, but von Neumann is almost like another species.

Perhaps I am more prone to egoism than you! I had a "promising" start to my career and a lot of ambition. I've fallen off that track and had time to reflect on what matters, but I still feel twinges of ego-driven ambition.

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