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Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

bleepingcomputer.com

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Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#761
post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.landisgyr.com/ezine-article/making-way-two-way-p... > In the old days, when power companies were the only generators in town, control devices like regulators, capacitors or relays were designed to assume that power flowed in only one direction. “If they saw power flowing in the other direction, they typically tripped or misbehaved, causing customer outages or power quality issues,” Kuloor says. This tende…

This all feels like a buffering problem. Can power companies not just buy big batteries... you wouldn't even need that many, just enough to signal generators to do the right thing. (Also no idea all the gadgets in-between house and generators, but assuming all the gadgets can handle load going in and out)

Part of that storage problem is what Tesla and Australia did. https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/australia-picks...

And there are other approaches to power storage. Thermal power storage is popular / useful with large solar installations. Hydro dams associated with a reservoir often have pumped storage where they can pump water back into the reservoir and then use it when its needed.

The signaling and frequency matching is still an issue.

I recall a company I worked at in California had two sets of generators. They had a diesel emergency generator for the data center and also a set of natural gas generators to cut down on power costs (when the price went high). The issue with the natural gas ones is that they needed something else to provide the utility frequency, something about them not being stable/consistent on their own.

Rooftop systems have the possibility / likelihood of also destabilizing the frequency in the grid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooftop_photovoltaic_power_sta...

> An electrical power system containing a 10% contribution from PV stations would require a 2.5% increase in load frequency control (LFC) capacity over a conventional system an issue which may be countered by using synchronverters in the DC/AC-circuit of the PV system. The break-even cost for PV power generation was in 1996 found to be relatively high for contribution levels of less than 10%. While higher proportions of PV power generation give lower break-even costs, economic and LFC considerations impose an upper limit of about 10% on PV contributions to the overall power systems.

There's a reference to that at https://www.worldcat.org/title/ieee-transactions-on-energy-c... - which I don't have access to to quote from.

The key point to this is that if solar power is increased, then the grid as a whole needs to also increase its power to get back in control of the load frequency. That is likely what you're seeing. By itself, this storage isn't sufficient for answering that issue. Ideally, the solar systems would have their own local batteries and respond as part of a smart grid to contribute according to the load frequency. ... But that costs more money for the installation and consumers are hesitant to do that.

https://www.energy-storage.news/news/tesla-powerwalls-hooked...

https://www.provisionsolar.com/general/grid-outages-and-the-...

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really isn't a load of crock. For whatever reason NVIDIA has a real interest in making gamers happy. You hear this as being a serious motivation for them even from employees not on the record. The most cynical take on it would be that they want to do this for long term growth. Which if so, is fine. An example of capitalism working.

Either proof-of-stake or ASICs are gonna make GPU Ether mining rather short lived. Nvidia fears that all those customers will vanish over night.

> Nvidia fears that all those customers will vanish over night.

Exactly - and the fear seems justified since it already happened once before in 2018.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”Nvidia has no incentive to make sure the GPU market operates in a sustainable way by supporting a secondary market.” They do in the sense that buyers often consider future resale values when making primary purchase decisions. It’s much easier to justify purchasing a $2500 “enthusiast” graphics card if you’re confident you can get a decent chunk of that back when you sell it in 6-12 months. Similarly, car makers ar…

> car makers are incentivised to try to ensure their vehicles have decent resale value Is this actually true or merely a theoretical thought? Because it would seem that car makers are incentivised to ensure their vehicles annihilate a couple days after their warranty expires and/or after a couple of miles after their guaranteed mileage is driven, and comparing e.g. reputation of second-hand cars manufactured in 80es/…

Car dealers make their money from trade-ins, parts and service (new sales are often a loss leader to get you in for service work - everyone is driving for the best deal even if the dealer loses money), so the dealers at least care.

Car makers need to do well against the competition, and resale value is something that people look at. They want your car to last 10 years and then fall apart - that being about the time people start to be willing to call a dead car dead of old age. Though they do like having a few collectors cars that are a lot older than that around because collectors also feed into car culture.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> car makers are incentivised to try to ensure their vehicles have decent resale value Is this actually true or merely a theoretical thought? Because it would seem that car makers are incentivised to ensure their vehicles annihilate a couple days after their warranty expires and/or after a couple of miles after their guaranteed mileage is driven, and comparing e.g. reputation of second-hand cars manufactured in 80es/…

They're not incentivised to do anything other than maximise their quarterly profits.

I know that cynicism is popular, but in fact their incentives are for more than that. The executive who wants to last - and most do - needs to ensure there is a profit next quarter as well. Sure they will take profit today vs next week, but they also invest in r&d because they know if they don't eventually there will be no bonus at all next quarter.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> car makers are incentivised to try to ensure their vehicles have decent resale value Is this actually true or merely a theoretical thought? Because it would seem that car makers are incentivised to ensure their vehicles annihilate a couple days after their warranty expires and/or after a couple of miles after their guaranteed mileage is driven, and comparing e.g. reputation of second-hand cars manufactured in 80es/…

>Is this actually true or merely a theoretical thought? On one hand you have FCA (I'm sorry, Stellantis ) which leans into its not so positive reputation and does just fine. The other hand you have Toyota who spend the 90s and 00s digging a goodwill moat in the minds of premium consumers. Both approaches work but for different demographics. You'll never see a 4Runner with a magnetic company sticker sitting in an indu…

> Both approaches work but for different demographics. You'll never see a 4Runner with a magnetic company sticker sitting in an industrial parking lot or in less well off part of town and you'll never see a Pacifica in an upscale suburban driveway.

Huh? Pacificas are everywhere, especially since they also have the only PHEV minivan in the US. In the PHEV Pacifica FB group I'm in (I do own one, so I am a bit biased here), many people have Pacificas alongside Teslas and other EVs. But even the gas Pacificas are everywhere, including "upscale suburban driveways".

Though your point does still stand about FCA/Stellantis' reputation: we had to get over their our perception of them when we got ours, and I would never consider any of their other vehicles. But our Pacifica has been a really great van. I'm just amused that you picked the one vehicle in their entire lineup that doesn't prove your point.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop doing that. You are just wasting energy.

Las vegas called, they want you to know they have the brightest and most energy consuming lightsource* in the world blasting at the sky, drawing fambling addicts like a moth to a flame. *excluding laser research laboratories and weapons.

The luxor light was originally 39 Xenon bulbs running at 7 kW each. 243 kW wasn't that much energy to start, but they actually run only half the bulbs now on a rotating basis. So about 120 kW.

The light costs about $51 an hour. Arguably the smallest expense involved in running a casino hotel 24 hours a day. Less than a rounding error.

They cut back to half-brightness not because of money, or energy, but because they thought the light pollution was a little excessive.

The strip is mostly solar-powered so the Luxor is basically just taking sunlight and beaming it back up into the sky.

It's not like you could take that energy and ship it elsewhere, or do something more productive with it. The Strip's solar plant exists because of The Strip. If the Strip didn't exist then you'd just have sunlight hitting rocks in the middle of the desert like everywhere else in Nevada.

Oh, and moths to a flame? That's literal. There's an entire ecosystem built up around the moths who flock to the Luxor, the bats that eat those moths, and the owls that eat those bats.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#767

Using a made up but probably good enough analogy, if scientist created a blackhole in the lab that could end up sucking in the entire planet and the solar system, would it be OK for someone to jam the mechanism that sustains it? I think of PoW gambling casinos slash Ponzi schemes (Bitcoin) in the same way. If the governments don't have any motivation to stop the mayhem, then the company whose products are being used…

I can’t blame you for using a throwaway account for a comment like that. Many cryptocurrencies provide value while video games suck time and value.

> Many cryptocurrencies provide value while video games suck time and value.

You don’t really expect anyone to take your defense of cryptocurrency seriously with a statement that hyperbolic and dismissive, do you?

Since the games industry is making up almost a quarter of the M&E economy, which is the single largest industry segment in the US, it’s evident that games provide a transfer and store of value to the economy. People who create games are effectively mining, so there is an apparent creation of value too, one that also involves creativity and skilled labor, unlike crypto. You can even read about the “value chain” of the games industry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_industry#Value_chai...

Just last year’s video game revenue in the US alone is equal to two thirds of the entire market cap of ETH as I post this, and of course the industry's revenue is growing every year, and the global games industry is much larger than the US alone. Crypto will become bigger eventually, but it’s not today. (And which is larger is actually irrelevant, you compared apples to orangutans, my point is simply that it’s a pretty bad idea to try to falsely claim the financial value of games is negative.)

I don’t even play games that much, because you’re right they do suck my time, so it’s an awkward position to be defending them, but the least you could do if you’re going to spout about the “value” of games and crypto is start from the truth and financial reality of the markets.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#768
post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> electrolytic capacitor dryout Has anyone spotted electrolytics on a card in the last ten years or so?

Uhhh every single one. Here's the Nvidia 3070 for example: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3070-f...

I don't recognize the manufacturer's mark on those, but they're almost certainly solid polymer capacitors and not electrolytic.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're selling out make more and/or raise prices. What if you want to raise prices only to crypto miners, and not raise them for gamers/professions, in order to support your long term customers? There are lots of very good business reasons to provide preferential treatment to a specific customer base, and to raise prices on a different customer base. It is called price discrimination, and is very useful. Do you…

If you want to help long term customers send discounts to people who have bought cards before. You don't need to cripple the devices. I don't support companies making the choice to limit their compute. I think companies should sell general purpose computers.

> send discounts to people

No, this doesn't solve the problem.

Because what they want to do is ensure that the cards are not resold to miners, and instead stay in the hands of long term customers.

> You don't need to cripple the devices

First of all, they aren't crippled for the existing customers. They are only limited, for this other use case that the company doesn't care about.

And they do need to limit that functionality, if they want to prevent those cards from being resold to crypto miners.

> I don't support companies

Then don't purchase their product, if you don't like it. That is kind of the point of all of this. They don't want you as a customer. And it is their company, that they can do what they want with.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#770
post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ”Nvidia has no incentive to make sure the GPU market operates in a sustainable way by supporting a secondary market.” They do in the sense that buyers often consider future resale values when making primary purchase decisions. It’s much easier to justify purchasing a $2500 “enthusiast” graphics card if you’re confident you can get a decent chunk of that back when you sell it in 6-12 months. Similarly, car makers ar…

I would really like to see some data on how much resale value factors in for purchase decisions in regards to gaming equipment in average.

On average, I imagine it's low. However, anecdotally the gamers I know who are buying $1000+ cards, generally do so every 2 years with the intent to flip them and buy the newest hottest card.

In a similar train of thought - there might be better data on this question if one was to look at the photography equipment market. Or other used consumer markets with high re-sale value.

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