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Poor in Tech

megelison.com

301–310 of 817 posts

Re: Poor in Tech

#301

That was great! Thanks for sharing it. > I knew I was the only poor person at my tech startup because they thought I was kidding when I said I had a GED. I feel that. I have almost no formal training at all. I have a GED, and attended a redneck tech school. Everything since, has been OJT. As a manager, one of the things that I looked for, was minimal formal training, yet experience doing things that required it. Good…

I had to google what a GED is. Turns out i'm rich )

Or middle class, so you didn't have pressures from the home forcing you to quit high school.

Re: Poor in Tech

#302
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tl;dr Poor people (and racial and ethnic minorities, and women, and queer folk) are not dumb. They just have to turn their equal cognitive resources towards things other (and more fundamental to survival) than their magnum opus/business idea/etc. Those who overcome this are HIGHLY effective, but it's not fair that we ask it of them. That's not how an effective or efficient or just society runs, and we leave money on…

No, the solution is to acknowledge that they are dumb and therefore focus resources with the assumption that they are dumb. USA assumes that poor people are smart, Europe assumes poor people are dumb. The European way is much better, and yes poor people in American are dumb, just like they are in Europe.

Is this sarcasm?

Re: Poor in Tech

#303
One thing that stuck out to me was how a lack of certain skills or knowledge played into keeping them poor in this position.

If they'd known the salaries of other people they could have negotiated for more pay up front. Even once they knew they were the lowest paid person they weren't comfortable bringing it up and trying to negotiate for more. They lacked the confidence or people skills to ask for mentorship from the people they worked with. None of this is helped by the fact that being broke takes brain power just to get by so you can't apply that effort and energy into improving your situation.

Many of us are lucky enough to have someone in our lives who could teach us these things. Is there a way we can make sure this kind of knowledge is passed on more equitably to help reduce intergenerational wealth gaps?

Re: Poor in Tech

#304

I'm from a "poorish" family, but from Europe. Some stuff is relatable some is not: - People ordering lunch always felt weird for me, in my mind I think "why should I pay 10€ for a bowl of salad, when I can go to the grocery store below the office and have the same for 1€", or even better pay 70 cents for the raw vegetables, wash them and chop them in the office and they will last 3 days - Student debt doesn't apply,…

I think the author's point about stealing has more to do with the way low-wage workers are assumed to be criminals by their employers, and have to deal with various invasive security measures their employer requires.

Re: Poor in Tech

#305
post #269

"Three paychecks is a month and a half of income (rent and two car payments by my fevered calculations, which never stop)" Pay attention to those last three words. This is very important. I've been on both sides too, and to me those words are like a slap in the face: stark reality. If you're poor enough (relative to the costs of your life) you are at a constant exhausting deficit because you CANNOT stop calculating a…

In many places around the world, poor people don't have "old car problems".

Could you explain what point you're trying to make?

Re: Poor in Tech

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are quite a few papers out there on the subject. As someone who has studied a little bit of sociology, I can tell you there are numerous sociological factors which basically determine that wealthier people have access to better food, better medical care and live healthier lives in comparison to lower-socioeconomic people. Where you live alone determines your health equity, if you live in a remote area or small…

> if you live in a remote area or small town away from a large city, your access to fresh and non-processed foods is heavily reduced. Do you really think this? I know the sticks. You apparently don't. You can live off potatoes, eggs, and oatmeal and not be fat. Those are available anywhere. There is a "poor" culture, there is an "elite" culture, and then there is a "responsibility" culture. I grew up financially poor…

"The Road to Wigan Pier" had a great bit about this, which hits the nail on the head based on my experience being working class:

The basis of their diet, therefore, is white bread and margarine, corned beef, sugared tea and potatoes—an appalling diet. Would it not be better if they spent more money on wholesome things like oranges and wholemeal bread or if they even, like the writer of the letter to the New Statesman, saved on fuel and ate their carrots raw? Yes, it would, but the point is that no ordinary human being is ever going to do such a thing. The ordinary human being would sooner starve than live on brown bread and raw carrots. And the peculiar evil is this, that the less money you have, the less inclined you feel to spend it on wholesome food. A millionaire may enjoy breakfasting off orange juice and Ryvita biscuits; an unemployed man doesn't. Here the tendency of which I spoke at the end of the last chapter comes into play. When you are unemployed, which is to say when you are underfed, harassed, bored and miserable, you don't want to eat dull wholesome food. You want something a little bit 'tasty'. There is always some cheaply pleasant thing to tempt you. Let's have three pennorth of chips! Run out and buy us a twopenny ice-cream! Put the kettle on and we'll all have a nice cup of tea! That is how your mind works when you are at the PAC level. White bread-and-marg. and sugared tea don't nourish you to any extent, but they are nicer (at least most people think so) than brown bread-and-dripping and cold water. Unemployment is an endless misery that has got to be constantly palliated, and especially with tea, the Englishman's opium. A cup of tea or even an aspirin is much better as a temporary stimulant than a crust of brown bread.

So yeah quite irrational, but it is comforting.

Re: Poor in Tech

#307

> Nobody had walked me away from my desk to keep me from stealing pens or staples or secrets. Are you saying poor people are always dishonest so by trusting you they treated you like a rich person, which is bad because ?? . Honestly I'm just confused.

No, she's saying people perceive the poor as being dishonest and prone to thievery and therefore treat them as a group in a manner reflecting that.

To be poor in America is to be lesser, not quite human, really. And our society is built from the top down to kindle that as early as possible, and to reinforce it at every stage of life.

Re: Poor in Tech

#308
post #282

Instead of seeing the bright side of life, in which this person clearly vastly improved their situation in life, all they can see is what they don’t have. “I knew I was the only poor person at my tech startup because I had the only fat body in the building.” I’m sorry, but no, being poor doesn’t make you fat. Your eating choices make you fat. Poor people have agency too. Agency is not something you buy. This is comin…

It seems that much of Chapter 6 of Wigan Pier is still pretty relevant: http://www.george-orwell.org/The_Road_to_Wigan_Pier/5.html

Would it not be better if they spent more money on wholesome things like oranges and wholemeal bread or if they even, like the writer of the letter to the New Statesman, saved on fuel and ate their carrots raw? Yes, it would, but the point is that no ordinary human being is ever going to do such a thing. The ordinary human being would sooner starve than live on brown bread and raw carrots. And the peculiar evil is this, that the less money you have, the less inclined you feel to spend it on wholesome food. A millionaire may enjoy breakfasting off orange juice and Ryvita biscuits; an unemployed man doesn't. Here the tendency of which I spoke at the end of the last chapter comes into play. When you are unemployed, which is to say when you are underfed, harassed, bored, and miserable, you don't want to eat dull wholesome food. You want something a little bit 'tasty'. There is always some cheaply pleasant thing to tempt you. Let's have three pennorth of chips! Run out and buy us a twopenny ice-cream! Put the kettle on and we'll all have a nice cup of tea! That is how your mind works when you are at the P.A.C. level. White bread-and-marg and sugared tea don't nourish you to any extent, but they are nicer (at least most people think so) than brown bread-and-dripping and cold water. Unemployment is an endless misery that has got to be constantly palliated, and especially with tea, the English-man's opium. A cup of tea or even an aspirin is much better as a temporary stimulant than a crust of brown bread.

Re: Poor in Tech

#309
post #148
post #89

I wouldn't consider myself poor or having grown up poor. I identify with many of the points on this list. I make less than many of my coworkers and my career has stagnated. I sometimes wonder if it has to do with this cultural gap. It seems like it's usually the people with an expensive image that are the ones who get promoted. Meanwhile I'm doing basically anything to save money and trying to leave work on time so I…

I won't say there's no bias (I'm sure it exists everywhere), but I think it's not an "expensive image" that gets you promoted as much as confidence. Many people who grew up rich have a natural confidence to them (because they are protected if they lose their job, have been told they'll be someone important one day, given lots of help in life), and that helps a lot in giving a vibe that you'll succeed. The great thing…

I've gone the other direction. The company has screwed me over enough that I know life is shitty and all the stuff teachers and parents tell you growing up is a lie. The confidence didn't help me anyways (due to politics) as I'm 9 years in and only a midlevel dev, even though I've worked in roles above my current one (senior dev, tech lead, ASC). Most of the people in the office talk about fancy expensive things. If you don't participate in that lifestyle, there's little connection.

Re: Poor in Tech

#310
post #220
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some ways it's a laundry list of ways rich people in the Bay Area act like wankers, which is interesting, but also quite irritatingly stereotypical. There are plenty who don't refuse to talk to the cleaning staff, lecture others on their choice of tampon, or snob fat people at the gym. I don't want people from outside the bubble (e.g. me, three years ago) to read this and think they'll be surrounded by wall-to-wal…

I also do not read this article that way. I think she does not complain about them. Most of them are most likely nice people (ignoring the gym paragraph). She reflect that "she realizes" that she is "poor compared to them". She does not imply that they are bad people or that she feels miserable about her "poorness" (she seems to earn much more than before .. and quit ... and probably got something better ... and ...…

The only other implicit criticism toward her coworkers was ignoring and not greeting the cleaning staff. For the most part, her coworkers come across as privileged, rather than mean or otherwise morally deficient.
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