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Poor in Tech

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Re: Poor in Tech

#281

Post by 8fGTBjZxBcHq »

username90 wrote: post #247
8fGTBjZxBcHq wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not hard to avoid being overweight when poor, and most poor people are overweight... what is happening? Do you see the obvious conclusion here? Do you endorse it?

People are getting fatter and fatter. It is much worse now than 20 years ago, and even much much worse than 40 years ago. Any explanation you can come up with needs to be able to explain this as well. Does poor people have worse access to food today? Do they have less money for food today? If we put poor people in the same conditions they had 40 years ago they would be slimmer than rich people today.

Yes I know where you stand on this, I don't need more information about your opinion.

I asked if you see the conclusion of this view, and if you endorse it.

To be very very clear it goes like this: if poor are fat because they make bad choices and for no other reasons, then you can reasonably conclude that that is also why they are poor. That they deserve to be poor for that reason.

Is that a fair summary of your view?

Re: Poor in Tech

#282

Post by leoc »

avancemos wrote: post #7

Instead of seeing the bright side of life, in which this person clearly vastly improved their situation in life, all they can see is what they don’t have. “I knew I was the only poor person at my tech startup because I had the only fat body in the building.” I’m sorry, but no, being poor doesn’t make you fat. Your eating choices make you fat. Poor people have agency too. Agency is not something you buy. This is comin…

It seems that much of Chapter 6 of Wigan Pier is still pretty relevant: http://www.george-orwell.org/The_Road_to_Wigan_Pier/5.html

Re: Poor in Tech

#283

Post by falcolas »

mcherm wrote: post #2

I've seen this before. Not often, because the companies I have worked at have rarely hired someone from this social strata. But in the cases where we have, I have seen the alienation. Aside from the obvious "be genuinely friendly", does anyone have suggestions of what to do as a coworker to support someone suffering from this cultural barrier?

Become a friend. That is to say, make their worries, concerns, happiness, and joy as important to yourself as your own.

It's easier for a friend to come to you with questions - not only about work, but about life in general.

Re: Poor in Tech

#284

Post by giantg2 »

ryanbrunner wrote: post #179
giantg2 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if you live in a remote area or small town away from a large city, your access to fresh and non-processed foods is heavily reduced." This simply isn't true. Most food deserts are in the poorer areas of the cities because nobody is bringing fresh produce in there to sell. If you live in the country or small town, many of these places have farm stands, farmers markets, and local farmers providing seasonal produce to t…

Rural areas being chock full of farmers markets is mostly nostalgia, anyone I know who lives in the country is far more likely to shop exclusively at Walmart than anyone in the city, and likely to prefer more non-perishable food (i.e. processed) because daily or multiple times a week shopping trips are infeasible. The farms in rural areas are generally focused on growing a single thing (either one type of livestock,…

"because daily or multiple times a week shopping trips are infeasible."

Do they not have a refrigerator? Once per week trips (maybe even less) were the norm for me growing up, and I had plenty of fresh fruits and veggies.

I've lived in multiple rural areas. Yes, many people do get food from Walmart. I can see some of the more remote people preferring some processed food. I can also see those remote people growing and processing their own (canning, like I do). Many people use frozen veggies, which I don't consider processed and are nearly as good as fresh. Most of the "fresh" stuff you see is actually months old due to the way the supply chain works. It arguably loses as much or more nutritional value than the frozen stuff. This situation is completely different from the actual food deserts you get in the city. The rural people have the option to buy fresh but may choose not to. These people living in food deserts in the city don't have the option of fresh produce in the stores they go to. They generally don't have space to grow their own either. This lack of choice is the big issue.

Every area I've lived in has had farm stands and farmers markets. It has also had local stores that contract with local farmers for seasonal produce. Individual vendors/farmers do tend to have limited selection by focusing on one or two crops. But there are usually multiple farmers focusing on different things (and coordinating through the local grange). Yes, the majority of farms are monoculture soy or corn. These other farms are usually 90% that but maybe 10% other crops, like pumpkin, corn, watermelon, tomato, cantaloupe, onion, potato, honey, hops, etc. There are also CSAs that you can join for a variety of produce, including meat and dairy. My parents live in an area where the local dairy still has delivery service - that's right a good old fashioned milk man.

Re: Poor in Tech

#285

Post by sidlls »

MattGaiser wrote: post #15

> > I knew I was the only poor person at my tech startup because I made more there than I’d ever made before; a daring amount I had been afraid to ask for during the offer process. I discovered through misadventure that I still made less than any of the executive assistants, or the receptionist. I was, in fact, the lowest-paid person in the building including the interns. I hadn’t known what was possible, so I couldn…

This person is writing from a lifetime of being poor, not being cash poor in-the-moment because of a salary.

This article resonates strongly with me. I grew up poor, too, and even though I have a 7 figure net worth now one of the first things I consider for anything is the cost. I don't have to, but I still do. I eat the low rent snacks and I use the company's daily cafeteria allowance to eat a sensible lunch and then take the rest home to share with the family. Being poor in America isn't just about money--it's about the psychological barriers and oppression that are erected.

Re: Poor in Tech

#286

Post by bnralt »

isomorph wrote: post #116

Many of the comments on this article are so cold. I can’t believe it. When I read the original article I was imagining all the constructive ways HN readers would interpret it and hold a mirror up to their own behaviour. Some commenters are doing this. But it surprises and depresses me how many people are commenting saying “no, this list isn’t what it says it is, it’s a list showing the author has a negative mindset /…

I seem to run into more and more responses like this these days. Instead of responding to any specific comment a person has written, it attempts to paint any differing opinion as being somehow immoral. I can't say that this type of approach is conducive to open discussion.

Re: Poor in Tech

#287

Post by Mauricebranagh »

tome wrote: post #99
ideamotor wrote: post #19

Assuming the trip to Greece was a joke was pretty good, as was the comment about hearing other people’s hobbies and just thinking about the expense. There are definitely cultural signifiers from wealth. Discussing housing endlessly is the biggest one.

Are indoor rock climbing and adult soccer known to be especially expensive activities? I haven't done much indoor rock climbing, but I've done a lot of adult soccer, mostly for free.

And you know Association football (soccer) is lower class in the UK.

Re: Poor in Tech

#288

Post by userulluipeste »

leetrout wrote: post #27

> I knew I was the only poor person at my tech startup because I was the only person who would say hello to the cleaning lady as she meekly made her rounds around us when we worked late. Everyone else had a long habit of ignoring anyone like her. I hate people that do this. We’re all human and worthy of respect and decency. A simple hello goes a long way.

I happen to be that sort of people that ignores people at work (whenever possible). That has nothing to do with my attitude/sentiment towards them. It's that being at work, most of the time I'm just absorbed, having something on my mind that I want to pay attention to. In that state I'd rather ignore everything and everyone around me, but I can't. Not answering to greetings from my peers would damage relations with them in the long run (not to mention that that greeting may be just an opener to something actually work related), and not answering to people higher up the chain of management would definitely have negative consequences, so I'm kind of forced to react to them. But then if sometime late the cleaning personnel happen to pass by, looking less like wanting to socialize with those at desks and more like wishing to get their tasks done and be over with, should both of us attempt to pay the time and effort of maintaining a human connection just for the sake of it?

Re: Poor in Tech

#289

Post by Philip-J-Fry »

GeriatricYouth wrote: post #36

> I knew I was the only poor person at my tech startup because I was afraid to seek mentorship from anyone above me, convinced that even asking would seem like bothersome begging. I watched the people around me network effortlessly, assured of favors and good words put in. I could only think in terms of what I could offer and how I could survive; they were thinking on the next level where they never had to wonder if…

It's definitely not anything to do with being poor. It's a confidence thing and having a will to learn and improve.

Throughout life we always learn from those who are more experienced. Your seniors are there specifically for seeking guidance.

You 100% should have spoken to teachers or tutors throughout school. Their job is to teach you and many of them enjoy sharing their knowledge and seeing someone want to better themsevles by going the extra distance to seek out information outside of the classroom.

Yes, sometimes people do have more important things to do. But no one is going to say "Go away, I don't care, I'm busy". They'll say "can we schedule this for another time?" and then you plan that.

Like, one of the most enjoyable things about my job is teaching other people things that I know and I think they can benefit from. I'll always have time for someone asking me question, it's never a bother. If someone else is blocked on work because they need help then I'll drop what I'm doing to aid them.

Re: Poor in Tech

#290

Post by username90 »

bsanr2 wrote: post #273
Applejinx wrote: post #155

"Three paychecks is a month and a half of income (rent and two car payments by my fevered calculations, which never stop)" Pay attention to those last three words. This is very important. I've been on both sides too, and to me those words are like a slap in the face: stark reality. If you're poor enough (relative to the costs of your life) you are at a constant exhausting deficit because you CANNOT stop calculating a…

Tl;dr Poor people (and racial and ethnic minorities, and women, and queer folk) are not dumb. They just have to turn their equal cognitive resources towards things other (and more fundamental to survival) than their magnum opus/business idea/etc. Those who overcome this are HIGHLY effective, but it's not fair that we ask it of them. That's not how an effective or efficient or just society runs, and we leave money on…

No, the solution is to acknowledge that they are dumb and therefore focus resources with the assumption that they are dumb. USA assumes that poor people are smart, Europe assumes poor people are dumb. The European way is much better, and yes poor people in American are dumb, just like they are in Europe.
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