The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann • Hacker News Board

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#21

Post by MikeUt » Wed, May 19, 2021, 1:23 PM UTC

idbehold wrote: post #7

HenryKissinger wrote: post #2

How much of our global technological progress can be attributed to a handful of geniuses who happened to be at the right time and place? How much more backward would the world be if the likes of Newton and Von Neumann hadn't existed? I unironically believe that the government should dig up his body, retrieve DNA samples, and clone him. Populate federal labs and agencies with Von Neumann clones. Sell a few to FAAMNG t…

"I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops." - Stephen Jay Gould

Gould is known for placing ideology ahead of science, so it's refreshing that he admits as much.

Stephen F. Blinkhorn, a senior lecturer in psychology at the University of Hertfordshire, wrote that The Mismeasure of Man was "a masterpiece of propaganda" that selectively juxtaposed data to further a political agenda. [..] Jensen also criticized Gould for concentrating on long-disproven arguments (noting that 71% of the book's references preceded 1950), rather than addressing "anything currently regarded as important by scientists in the relevant fields"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mismeasure_of_Man

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#22

Post by javajosh » Wed, May 19, 2021, 1:27 PM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #16

javajosh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence only matters to a certain point for good administrators. Morality, courage, and, above all, self-restraint are just as important. These are the people capable of changing the rules in a way that benefits others even if it means a slight drop in personal wealth, power, or prestige. Often we seem to pick those who are constitutionally incapable of doing that, much to our detriment. (One big reason is that…

>civic-minded self-restraint. Such a well know American characteristic you needed a 22nd amendment.

That we have strayed from the virtue of self-restraint is beyond all doubt, root and vine. Our consumerist, ignorant population and our egoist, shameless leadership proves it. That doesn't mean its not a virtue that we once cared deeply about, and or that it wasn't definitional. And it doesn't mean we won't start caring about it again. I'd like to think that its in our DNA, just recessive right now.

The elite schools are populated by smart people who are well on their way to mastering the rules of the game, like their parents did (speaking broadly), but in general they aren't interested at all in changing the rules for the betterment of the broader society. I'm generalizing, but it's basically true. (There may be some idealistic instinct in college; but that quickly evaporates when the hard choices must be made that impact your families income and safety within society.)

How many lawyers build a successful career on mastering the corrupt rules vs how many build a career speaking truth to power and calling out the corruption? Reforming a corrupt system, succeed or fail, will destroy you and everything you love, and these days you won't even get the paltry victory of public esteem. It's worse: half of our public will take the system's side, insofar as they even know about it, because the system can afford great PR and produces endless distraction.)

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#23

Post by blacktriangle » Wed, May 19, 2021, 1:27 PM UTC

JetSetWilly wrote: post #18

> In fact, von Neumann claimed to do some of his best work in noisy, chaotic environments such as in the living room of his house with the television blaring. I often think of this when people claim it is impossible to conceive of any advanced thought in an open office or noisy environment. In fact, it is just a personal preference and one environment isn't necessarily any better than another.

Not impossible, just impossible for them.

First, the difference between the television blaring and my office talking is that in office chatter I'm constantly picking up bits of sound that make my brain think I should be paying attention to them. The sounds of a Simpsons rerun I've seen 90 times don't distract my brain in the same way.

Second, we're talking about what works for MOST people, Peopleware has actual data to back this up, the majority of people need quiet private space to do deep work.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#24

Post by fastasucan » Wed, May 19, 2021, 1:27 PM UTC

JetSetWilly wrote: post #18

> In fact, von Neumann claimed to do some of his best work in noisy, chaotic environments such as in the living room of his house with the television blaring. I often think of this when people claim it is impossible to conceive of any advanced thought in an open office or noisy environment. In fact, it is just a personal preference and one environment isn't necessarily any better than another.

I find it the opposite. To work in a noicy environment is obviously so remarkable that its worth writing about.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#25

Post by bytematic » Wed, May 19, 2021, 1:28 PM UTC

JetSetWilly wrote: post #18

> In fact, von Neumann claimed to do some of his best work in noisy, chaotic environments such as in the living room of his house with the television blaring. I often think of this when people claim it is impossible to conceive of any advanced thought in an open office or noisy environment. In fact, it is just a personal preference and one environment isn't necessarily any better than another.

Something that greatly surprised me when I worked in my first open plan office was that I didn't prefer any headphones or earbuds of any kind. I kind of melted into my work and sometimes looking up at people walking by or various smells, sounds, etc. would keep my mind active.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#26

Post by insickness » Wed, May 19, 2021, 1:28 PM UTC

JetSetWilly wrote: post #18

> In fact, von Neumann claimed to do some of his best work in noisy, chaotic environments such as in the living room of his house with the television blaring. I often think of this when people claim it is impossible to conceive of any advanced thought in an open office or noisy environment. In fact, it is just a personal preference and one environment isn't necessarily any better than another.

Actually it is not just personal preference. I remember reading studies that show that school children perform worse when there is background noise. Here's one article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/ulterior-motives/201...

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#27

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 19, 2021, 1:29 PM UTC

HenryKissinger wrote: post #2

How much of our global technological progress can be attributed to a handful of geniuses who happened to be at the right time and place? How much more backward would the world be if the likes of Newton and Von Neumann hadn't existed? I unironically believe that the government should dig up his body, retrieve DNA samples, and clone him. Populate federal labs and agencies with Von Neumann clones. Sell a few to FAAMNG t…

[deleted]

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#28

Post by abnry » Wed, May 19, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

Great people are warranted discussion, but as someone who was once in the academic math world, I had to quit reading after a few sentences.

Genius is a very real thing, but I don't need to read adulation after adulation in a series of anecdotes and quotes that will only make me feel inadequate.

The mathematics itself is greater than the mathematician, who himself craps on the toilet like anyone else. Focus on the math, not the mathematician. It will make you happier.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#29

Post by domano » Wed, May 19, 2021, 1:33 PM UTC

HenryKissinger wrote: post #2

How much of our global technological progress can be attributed to a handful of geniuses who happened to be at the right time and place? How much more backward would the world be if the likes of Newton and Von Neumann hadn't existed? I unironically believe that the government should dig up his body, retrieve DNA samples, and clone him. Populate federal labs and agencies with Von Neumann clones. Sell a few to FAAMNG t…

Aside from the other issues mentioned by commenters i want to add that this perspective leaves out the whole nature vs nurture debate - so those clones would not automatically become geniuses.

You could essentially just give a bunch of kids a phenomenal education and end up with a similiar, if not better result due to diversification of talents.

Re: The Unparalleled Genius of John von Neumann

#30

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 19, 2021, 1:33 PM UTC

meroes wrote: post #14

HenryKissinger wrote: post #2

How much of our global technological progress can be attributed to a handful of geniuses who happened to be at the right time and place? How much more backward would the world be if the likes of Newton and Von Neumann hadn't existed? I unironically believe that the government should dig up his body, retrieve DNA samples, and clone him. Populate federal labs and agencies with Von Neumann clones. Sell a few to FAAMNG t…

On the contrary: "Many generations of graduate students who might have been tempted to try to construct hidden-variables theories were beaten into submission by the claim that von Neumann, 1932, had proved that it could not be done. A few years later (see Jammer, 1974,p.273) Grete Hermann, 1935, pointed out a glaring deficiency in the argument, but she seems to have been entirely ignored. Everybody continued to cite…

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