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Dissolving the Fermi Paradox

arxiv.org

11–20 of 74 posts

Re: Dissolving the Fermi Paradox

#11
post #4

When government literally admits that we have daily sightings of UAPs they cannot explain - i do not understand why we still also say there is no evidence of alien life? https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/nf7h0x/wow/

I do not understand why we would only be seeing UFOs at convenient airplane altitudes inside our atmosphere, but not detect them while they approach Earth, despite the fact that space is constantly being scanned for all kinds of stuff. I also don't understand why the daily UFOs would choose to just confuse us by flying around in a sorta-hidden but also sorta-not-hidden way. Why don't they interact with us if they go…

A UFO literally means "we don't know what we saw" however the parent used UAP which gives the meaning of alien to something unknown.

This contextualises the issue and brings up the questions you mention. Without this imposed meaning the questions go away.

People like giving meaning to the unknown.

Re: Dissolving the Fermi Paradox

#12
post #4

When government literally admits that we have daily sightings of UAPs they cannot explain - i do not understand why we still also say there is no evidence of alien life? https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/nf7h0x/wow/

several of the unexplained videos are debunked. The pilots testimony does not match what their equipment is saying in the videos. The media is grossly negligent when covering these topics. The recent UFO tringle is following FAA rules and regulations with lighting its been discovered its tringle due to the lensing. UFO does not mean alien it means unidentified.

Re: Dissolving the Fermi Paradox

#13

TL;DR: "We don't know how often abiogenesis happens, and our uncertainty for its rate is extremely large. The error bars extend so far into 'effectively zero' that we could or could not be alone, it's a toss-up". Seriously, this paper hinges entirely on the prior distribution for the abiogenesis rate. Longer comment: The paper considers each parameter of the Drake as a probability distribution over some range. Notabl…

Basically, they've replaced ass-pulling the factors in the Drake equation with ass-pulling probability distributions for those factors.

Re: Dissolving the Fermi Paradox

#14
post #10

> we find a substantial {\em ex ante} probability of there being no other intelligent life in our observable universe This is very sobering to read if true. It’s all on us. Life is even more precious than we thought and every human life extinguished even more of a loss to the universe. If we could only band together and see this.

Except that human life is causing many other species to be extinguished here on Earth so perhaps it would be better for the universe if humans would go extinct, in a gradual and humane way: see vhemt.org.

It would also mean humans are the only species that has potential to spread life throughout the stars. I agree with JohnJamesRambo that we should see how precious human lives are.

Re: Dissolving the Fermi Paradox

#15
post #5

"When we update this prior in light of the Fermi observation, we find a substantial probability that we are alone in our galaxy, and perhaps even in our observable universe (53%–99.6% and 39%–85% respectively). ’Where are they?’ — probably extremely far away, and quite possibly beyond the cosmological horizon and forever unreachable." Opinions like these (I stop one step short of calling them findings, as this is spe…

Man, this is exactly why I dislike this paper. Somebody reads abstract and conclusion section, sees those probabilities, and then runs with them, possibly forming an entire world view around that. But there are such massive asterisks that should be attached to these numbers which are completely absent in that kind of presentation.

The ~50% probabilities from the paper are not fundamentally more founded in reality than "Did another planet in our galaxy develop intelligent life yet that attempted to communicate? I don't know, so let's assume 50% either way. Therefore, we are alone with 50% probability." Should that number be 50%? Or 10%? Or 99%? You're choosing some prior there. So does this paper, and the priors chosen gravely affect the result. Of course, the paper has more intricate math and more solid reasons for their priors, but fundamentally it is still just assigning almost arbitrary probability distributions to parameters that we have no grasp on. Specifically (see my other comment), the numbers that they get primarily depend on the choice of prior distribution for the abiogenesis rate, which overshadows all other parameters. It has such massive error bars (>200 orders of magnitude by their own account) that arriving at a concrete probability (in the way that you understood it when reading the paper) is somewhere between misleading and a lie, because it's more or less just a projection of that prior into a single number.

In other words, I'm convinced they could have easily arrived at probabilities like 0.1% or 99.9% by reasonably varying their prior distribution for that parameter alone.

Re: Dissolving the Fermi Paradox

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand why we would only be seeing UFOs at convenient airplane altitudes inside our atmosphere, but not detect them while they approach Earth, despite the fact that space is constantly being scanned for all kinds of stuff. I also don't understand why the daily UFOs would choose to just confuse us by flying around in a sorta-hidden but also sorta-not-hidden way. Why don't they interact with us if they go…

A UFO literally means "we don't know what we saw" however the parent used UAP which gives the meaning of alien to something unknown. This contextualises the issue and brings up the questions you mention. Without this imposed meaning the questions go away. People like giving meaning to the unknown.

Doesn’t UAP just mean unidentifiable aerial phenomena? That doesn’t say alien to me.

Re: Dissolving the Fermi Paradox

#17
The paper basically says that the Drake equation is just a guess, and if we’re going to guess, we might as well do so using probabilistic models. Their model puts the Great Filter behind us.

This makes intuitive sense too — an early Great Filter simply has to stop life from occurring, while a late Great Filter has to deal with the complexity of preventing life from doing what it does best (surviving and spreading in a “Life finds a way” style). Concretely, an early Great Filter has fewer variables it must affect than a late Great Filter. Like the paper says, we are probably alone, but there’s little reason to be alarmed about it.

And if you happen to believe that AGI and a Singularity are the inevitable outcome of intelligent life, the case is even stronger that we are the first, last, and only. However powerful the Great Filter might be, it’s unlikely that a super-intelligence would succumb to it.

Re: Dissolving the Fermi Paradox

#18
post #4

When government literally admits that we have daily sightings of UAPs they cannot explain - i do not understand why we still also say there is no evidence of alien life? https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/nf7h0x/wow/

Why would UFOs be "evidence of alien life"? They would have to be identified in some sense, otherwise they are just as much evidence of fairies or saints as they are evidence of aliens.

Re: Dissolving the Fermi Paradox

#19
post #5

"When we update this prior in light of the Fermi observation, we find a substantial probability that we are alone in our galaxy, and perhaps even in our observable universe (53%–99.6% and 39%–85% respectively). ’Where are they?’ — probably extremely far away, and quite possibly beyond the cosmological horizon and forever unreachable." Opinions like these (I stop one step short of calling them findings, as this is spe…

It's not religious. If anything the opposite is true. Believing we're the only intelligent life in the universe is an epic violation of the Copernican Principle. There are so many other explanations for Fermi Silence - from the reality of extremely limited sampling to the creeping suspicion that we're too mediocre and underdeveloped to recognise truly intelligent life - that grand assumptions about our specialness se…

"Believing we're the only intelligent life in the universe is an epic violation of the Copernican Principle."

Not necessarily, because the principle collides with observer bias in this case. I don't think it's valid in this context.

"There are so many other explanations for Fermi Silence"

Of course. I'm not concerned about the explanations themselves though - more about the emotional dimension; the attachment to the underlying idea. Lots of people seem to yearn for the ETI to exist at all. They'd be fine with any of the explanations you mentioned to be true, as long as the core concept is protected.

"None of this requires aliens who will teach us anything, one way or the other."

My point is not that they would, or that it's a logical scenario. My point is that humans exhibit a strong cultural need for this type of narrative.

I'm interested in this anthropologically, so to speak. I don't really care about the actual aliens (or the lack thereof).

Re: Dissolving the Fermi Paradox

#20
I have a personal theory about the great filter:

The great filter is evolution converging to a local maxima and not evolving creatures capable of higher intelligence.

We're scared about the mass extinctions on Planet Earth while at the same time they were the ones that cleared the field for different animals to evolve. Case in point, the Dinosaurs going bust paved the way for small mammals (then large mammals, etc)

"But couldn't we have intelligent dinosaurs" maybe not? (Because of a bunch of stuff that only came later like animal packs, family life, etc - though it might be argued that some dinosaurs had that)

Then we have the fact that mammals are born much more frail than other species and needs "a family" to take care of them for a while (and human's big heads made that "while" into "a lot of time")

But without that you don't get societies organizing. And the bigger the society the more you can do with it.

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