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Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

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Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#391

Post by fomine3 »

bkor wrote: post #87
nojito wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% electric cars isn’t feasible for countries like Japan https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/toyotas-chief-says-electric...

> 100% electric cars isn’t feasible for countries like Japan Japan heavily subsidises research into Hydrogen. This over anything else, e.g. electric. Quoting a Japanese car manufacturer is therefore a bit biased. Japan has two different energy grids btw, one runs at 50 Hz, the other at 60 Hz. Japan made some really strange decisions regarding their electric grid. That makes Japan unique, it isn't common to have such…

Even if there is single power grid in Japan, it's still really small grid compared to America/Europe/China. It's hard to compete with other countries' manufacturing industry with relatively stable green energy if carbon tax become thing. Also nuclear plant is dead end since 2011. That's why they developing hydrogen to store energy. Maybe Korea is in similar situation?

But I still doubt is hydrogen for cars (not trucks) practical. Maybe this is just a demo rather than serious competitor to EV.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#392

Post by gnicholas »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #336
SigmundA wrote: post #117

This is at 66.9 km/h (40 mph) in order to greatly increase its range due to lower drag compared to normal highway speeds. As a comparison a Tesla Model 3 got 975km (606 miles) at 40 km/h (25 mph) [1]. I can't seem to find any range tests at a similar speed as the Nexo. I found an EPA dyno test for the Model 3 at 77 km/h (48mph) for 708 km (440 miles). The Nexo and Model 3 have similar dimension and weight and price,…

And a Hyundai Kona Electric did 1000km as well, probably at ridiculously low speeds as well :) ( https://thedriven.io/2020/08/14/three-unmodified-kona-electr... )

> The results of the test – conducted over 3 days with three vehicles in Germany in conditions mimicking heavy urban traffic – are impressive for the Hyundai Kona Electric which is already one of the longest range vehicles on the Australian market.

Wow, it must have been brutal to drive 1,000km under faux heavy urban conditions.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#393

Post by Robotbeat »

judge2020 wrote: post #388
Robotbeat wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Similar to a liquid fueled car, but worse than an electric car in most circumstances. But the problem is there will never be an equivalent hydrogen network as there is gasoline network because hydrogen fueling stations are far more expensive to install and maintain. Either the station overhead ends up much higher than gasoline or hydrogen is used much more rarely. Electric car distance records as of 2018 are 1…

I thought it sounded expensive hearing that Tesla's high-powered superchargers cost hundreds of thousands of dollars[0], but apparently hydrogen stations can cost north of 2 million dollars[1]. 0: https://techcrunch.com/2013/07/26/inside-teslas-supercharger... 1: https://www.wardsauto.com/technology/costs-check-growth-fuel...

Yeah, and a Level 2 charger could be mere thousands, and a Level 1 outlet a couple hundred.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#394

Post by _carbyau_ »

judge2020 wrote: post #387
_carbyau_ wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me that'd be half an hour to ruminate on how my apartment has no place to charge a car. I am not getting an EV anytime soon unfortunately.

The general lack of EVs in multifamily housing is concerning for EV adoption - the only places where it's really possible is if the community offers a garage and the site's willing to book an electrician to install the 240v outlet.

I am fortunate that my building committee is pretty forward looking. It helps that many owners actually live there.

But it is a significant project and it doesn't look like EV charging standards (plugs, power delivery) are set across all manufacturers.

The balance of effort+money vs benefit/risk means we will keep driving what we know for now.

I know the tide will turn sometime, but not anytime soon.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#395

Post by JimTheMan »

hydrogtehd wrote: post #250
baybal2 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people would be ready to drive a hydrogen bomb?

“Hydrogen bomb” is a little exaggerated. But to your detractors: “More than a gasoline bomb, hopefully. Gasoline is more dangerous.” Citation needed. How is gasoline more dangerous? While gasoline is very dangerous, gasoline is a liquid and will not burn until vaporized; Gasoline is dangerous because it vaporizes quickly. H2 is already a gas and has a ridiculously low spark energy. Furthermore H2 is under pressure. G…

I work with a guy who was involved in a near miss incident with these cannisters. They are not risk free, although you could argue that the accidents are rare and potentially worth the risk?

https://www.busnews.com.au/industry-news/1201/gas-bus-explos...

https://www.ctif.org/news/cause-stockholm-cng-bus-explosion-...

https://hal-ineris.archives-ouvertes.fr/ineris-00976180/docu...

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#396

Post by beyondcompute »

ajmurmann wrote: post #364
beyondcompute wrote: post #228

Hydrogen is the future of electric transportation! Imagine you are driving and you have several cartridges of magnesium hydride and when you pass by a refueling station a drone catches up with you and swaps nearly-depleted cartridges one by one all while you continue going! How cool is that! B-) And then you can refuel by stuff that you produce yourself using photo catalyst solar panels in your back yard.

Why couldn't you do that with batteries?

You could, you are right! :)

I still think that batteries are a slower, more complicated (and therefore expensive), heavier and less environmentally friendly tech. Hydrogen just seems more “elegant” somehow. Again, offering potential for much faster refueling. Once you come up with a good way to safely store it in a vehicle or a device.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#397

Post by sandworm101 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #386
bdamm wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While technically true, the conversion is inefficient. It takes a lot of power to extract H2 from H2O. You could just use that power directly. The problem with electrics in -50 is keeping them plugged in when not in use. -50 is very extreme though, you’re talking far north or Edmonton.

Apart from some freak events that happen every 50 years -50C doesn't _really_ happen anywhere settled in Canada. Even a place like Inuvik, the coldest temp ever recorded was -56.7C but only for a few minutes... in 1968. Edmonton gets a few nights where it can get below -40C every once in a while, but it's not common and again, it's not all night. Frankly it just sounds like he's confusing actual temperature with wind…

Fort McMurray Alberta. Not exactly the end of the earth. It is often colder than the far north because it is far from the ocean. May 19th today. There is snow on the ground. Every year there is a week or two of -40, not wind-chill, temperature. Nobody who actually lives in the north misunderstands wind-chill.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#398

Post by _ph_ »

olivermarks wrote: post #353
_ph_ wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might, but if the Tesla Semi becomes a reality, the potential market for hydrogen in trucks becomes much smaller too.

The dynamics of moving heavy loads long distances has never favored electric power. Diesel currently powers tractor semis because it produces more energy than gasoline and creates much more low speed continuous load torque. EVs are well suited to light loads and short distances, rapid acceleration and altitude change but are not well suited to long range hauling of heavy loads due to the enormous energy required.

EVs are great if you are pulling heavy loads across hills, as you get your energy back going downhill (at least large parts of it). The torque also rather is an advantage of EVs. Diesel engines are popular because they are more efficient than gasoline engines and if you have continuous high loads, that adds up. Guess what is much more efficient than Diesel engines? Electric engines! And they are way more efficient than going the route via hydrogen.

The only open question is: can you put enough batteries into a battery electric semi? If you can't, then of course the question about efficiency is moot. But if you can, everything speaks for battery electric vehicles. That is where the Tesla Semi comes into play. It promises ranges that are just enough for most applications, for those applications it has basically "won" right from the start. What remains to be seen is how large exactly the sector is which isn't served by the Semi. But in any case, with every improvement of the battery technology, that sector shrinks a bit further.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#399

Post by Mvandenbergh »

eternauta3k wrote: post #259
Mvandenbergh wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It doesn't seem like current fuels cell have much of a energy density / range advantage even though hydrogen itself is much more energy dense, the fuel cell weight and efficiency and high pressure liquid hydrogen tanks must be accounted for. Hydrogen has a better gravimetric scaling than batteries - as stored energy increases, the fixed weight of the fuel cell is amortised over more energy and the weight of high pre…

> the weight of high pressure tanks goes up with their surface area while the energy stores goes up with volume. Nope, tank mass scales with volume because bigger tanks need thicker walls: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_vessel#Scaling

Right you are!

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#400

Post by saagarjha »

marvin wrote: post #76
yonaguska wrote: post #63

> “I was constantly checking the Nexo’s efficiency readout to maximise the distance I was getting per kilogram of hydrogen. I found that by using techniques from rally driving, such as looking as far down the road as possible, as well as tips I have learned from my dad for driving a truck efficiently over long distances, it’s actually possible to go way beyond Nexo’s official range.” Anyone have some insights on this…

It generally breaks down to don’t brake unless you have to, and know & use the performance characteristics of whatever you’re driving. This might mean slowing down while anticipating stoplight changes, curves or congestion behavior so you can just keep rolling, not accelerating over the top of a hill or entering a decline with excess speed, leaving a good distance to the car in front and so on. Also knowing the effic…

Note that even on electric vehicles, regenerative isn't "magic": it's typically about 60% efficient or so, because of losses in the brakes and motors when using that energy again. Rolling better can easily get you an additional 10-20% on your efficiency.
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