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Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

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Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#611

Post by caconym_ »

kyboren wrote: post #595
caconym_ wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are not economic parasites. They are the physical manifestation of the Invisible Hand. Why do you (apparently) imagine these things are mutually exclusive? > maybe NVidia should start pricing their products correctly so that they capture the value I do happen to agree with this in principle, up to a point, and I've said as much in the past. It's easier said than done, though, especially when the scarcity is ex…

> Why do you (apparently) imagine these things are mutually exclusive? An economic parasite extracts rent. Arbitrageurs add value by reducing spreads, adding liquidity, and improving allocative efficiency. > Ultimately, Nvidia may feel that it makes more sense to (attempt to) cater to the steady, predictable consumer market for their products, rather than alienating those buyers in favor of crypto miners during a per…

> I think it's a real stretch to call this a moral issue.

After your little tribute to Niemöller there, I'm surprised you'd claim otherwise—but maybe you just find it a useful rhetorical device to use as a bludgeon in your quest for reduced spreads, added liquidity, and improved allocative efficiency. I suppose it wouldn't be the first time somebody's invoked the specter of Hitler and the Nazis in an argument with little or no regard for the awful human weight of the events they're alluding to.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#613

Post by [deleted] »

akelly wrote: post #441

This won't really do anything for availability or reducing scalper pricing. Miners are a sizeable proportion of sales but far from the majority. Gamers will be able to buy more of these GPUs but less of the non-LHR or AMD GPU's. GPU prices won't actually change. The real reason Nvidia is doing this is that when mining profitability inevitably drops, either because of a crypto price crash or Ethereum moving to Proof o…

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#614

Post by racl101 »

wbraun wrote: post #2

Does this behavior anger anyone else on a deep level? I get that its hard to buy GPUs right now, but this seems like such an attack on general purpose computing. Hardware manufactures already segment features between consumer and busness grade parts that the silicon itself is capable of, such as virtualization, but restricting what algorithms one can run is a whole new level. I am pretty sure my next GPU is going to…

Naw. They're trying to recognize the pain of their consumers. And trying to do something to address it.

Better than nothing.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#615

Post by didericis »

detaro wrote: post #533
didericis wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apologists will point to most crypto-mining using renewable energy. Yes, because hydro is the cheapest power. But all the hydro power use can actually limit the power and/or make it more expensive for everyone else. As an admitted apologist, that's one of the weaker arguments. The most compelling to me is that power usage isn't properly compared to traditional banking. Sustaining all of the people and in person inf…

The focus is on transaction layer because that is what the crypto currencies provides. The blockchain doesn't run customer support, doesn't handle cash logistics, doesn't decide in conflicts involving the real world (e.g. if you do a blockchain escrow thing with multisig or smart contracts or whatever to give customers the equivalent of chargebacks in case of fraud, you still need humans to make the decision), ... so…

Describing cryptocurrencies as a transaction layer does not describe the value. Communicating “Adam paid Bob X coins” is not hard.

What’s hard is having everyone agree on the same history of transactions. That’s what cryptocurrencies provide. There is an enormous amount of accounting and verification work that goes on within banking systems to solve the verification problem.

My argument was not that every human role has a cost that needs to be factored in, but that any human role has a high cost, and a large number of human roles require very large amounts of energy to support.

A fair bit of what you describe also can in fact be done with just smart contracts where the contract and those who sign it (the human customers) makes the decision without any middleman (without a human escrow agent).

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#616

Post by arthurcolle »

munk-a wrote: post #48
arthurcolle wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So earning income is less important than letting people play video games? Let's just say I'm unconvinced by this argument.

I think it's quite fair to say earning income is less important than allowing people to achieve happiness and video games are a pretty well known way to accomplish that.

I unequivocally disagree with this statement - "happiness" achieved by video games is superficial, without real meaning. They are thrilling endeavors and fill time effectively, but they are absolutely secondary to the absolute positive of actually deriving income. I seriously can't believe that anyone would seriously argue a distraction is worth more than actual income.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#617

Post by parineum »

Clewza313 wrote: post #610
irq wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make $7-8 per day, after electrical costs, letting my 2080ti (normally used for flight sim, but when not in use…) run nicehash’s miner software. My electricity costs $0.0816 per kWh. Not a ton of money but it adds up after a month and the GPU was a sunk cost since I got it for gaming. It literally is profitable, for my situation anyway.

So at around $2500 a pop, you'd be looking at a year just to amortize your costs, and that's assuming BTC stays at its current insane levels. (A mighty assumption, since it's dropped 30% in the last week.)

As long as it's taking a year to pay for itself, have a look at bitcoin's change in value over any recent 12 month period.

I'm not really a crypto guy but mining in your downtime on a decent gpu is a pretty good gamble.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#618

Post by cableshaft »

Clewza313 wrote: post #610
irq wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make $7-8 per day, after electrical costs, letting my 2080ti (normally used for flight sim, but when not in use…) run nicehash’s miner software. My electricity costs $0.0816 per kWh. Not a ton of money but it adds up after a month and the GPU was a sunk cost since I got it for gaming. It literally is profitable, for my situation anyway.

So at around $2500 a pop, you'd be looking at a year just to amortize your costs, and that's assuming BTC stays at its current insane levels. (A mighty assumption, since it's dropped 30% in the last week.)

He bought it for Flight Sim it sounds like, the mining is just a bonus.

And Flight Simulator 2020 needs crazy specs if you want the pretty graphics at decent frame rates. I was planning on doing the mining on the side just to reduce how much it cost, but I'm mainly getting it for the pretty Flight Sim graphics.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#619

Post by kyboren »

caconym_ wrote: post #611
kyboren wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you (apparently) imagine these things are mutually exclusive? An economic parasite extracts rent. Arbitrageurs add value by reducing spreads, adding liquidity, and improving allocative efficiency. > Ultimately, Nvidia may feel that it makes more sense to (attempt to) cater to the steady, predictable consumer market for their products, rather than alienating those buyers in favor of crypto miners during a per…

> I think it's a real stretch to call this a moral issue. After your little tribute to Niemöller there, I'm surprised you'd claim otherwise—but maybe you just find it a useful rhetorical device to use as a bludgeon in your quest for reduced spreads, added liquidity, and improved allocative efficiency. I suppose it wouldn't be the first time somebody's invoked the specter of Hitler and the Nazis in an argument with li…

Sorry, I wasn't clear about what I was referring to: GPU resales are not a moral issue. Restrictions on computation very much are.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were calling a moral issue. If you were referring to the restrictions on computation, then I agree.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#620

Post by emmelaich »

girvo wrote: post #582
akelly wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's three main ways GPUs wear out, silicon electromigration, electrolytic capacitor dryout, and fan bearing failure. And the first two happen much faster at higher temperatures. Temperatures are similar between gaming and mining, but miners run 24/7 compared to gaming 1-2 hrs/day, so the GPUs age like 10x faster. But still, GPU failures are pretty rare, I think the concern is overblown.

Miners undervolt and often underclock though: heat is their enemy, so they’re more particular about this than gamers are these days.

> Heat is their enemy

Sometimes literally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr8bp8a2QS4

"A Bitcoin Miner Heatstroked In His Sleep. This Is What Happened To His Organs."

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