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Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

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Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#161
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If someone can't moderate their own consumption of something despite their best efforts, abstinence works. It doesn't work for sex ed and I don't see why it would work for this.

I assume this is thinly-veiled political sniping? Just seems like anyone posting here would notice the bleeding obvious - that sex ed happens in a very narrow age band not noted for self-knowledge, gratification delay or self control, compared with people with an addictive tendency across the age and self-control spectrum.

This article is about social media use and depression in teenagers, I thought the parallel and relevance was obvious.

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#162

Back in college I enrolled in a human-computer interaction course as part of a double major I was pursing at the time. A large body of newly-published research at the time, in 2016, was finding statistically significant positive correlations between the use of social media and rates of self-reported depression. As someone who has struggled with depression their entire life, 2016 was the year I deleted my Facebook acc…

Do you happen to have a link? Would love to share it with some friends showing signs of depression who are heavy social media users

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#163

It's very odd, I use to use Instagram and it would make me depressed. IDK how to explain, I don't even have any friends on there I follow. Just something about seeing everyone at their best 100% of the time, doing amazing things 100% of the time, never facing adversity 100% of the time. I know it's not realistic but it still gets to your head. I uninstalled it from my phone I feel better about myself after a few week…

The charts in the article go until 2019, consider that teenagers have suffered an enormous amount of stress during the last year because of remote learning and lack of real social contacts, poor teenagers are much less equipped to cope with social media induced shame and guilt. It might be that these sad figures will go through the roof in the very near future. I think parents really need to take measures in order to cut social media consumption of their kids, if states are unable to influence the addictiveness of these platforms (how could one regulate something like this?)

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#164

It's very odd, I use to use Instagram and it would make me depressed. IDK how to explain, I don't even have any friends on there I follow. Just something about seeing everyone at their best 100% of the time, doing amazing things 100% of the time, never facing adversity 100% of the time. I know it's not realistic but it still gets to your head. I uninstalled it from my phone I feel better about myself after a few week…

You should follow my Instagram.

Its horribly taken pictures of kinda boring moments

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#166

It's very odd, I use to use Instagram and it would make me depressed. IDK how to explain, I don't even have any friends on there I follow. Just something about seeing everyone at their best 100% of the time, doing amazing things 100% of the time, never facing adversity 100% of the time. I know it's not realistic but it still gets to your head. I uninstalled it from my phone I feel better about myself after a few week…

It's admittedly an extreme case, but I've been seeing Instagram fairly directly harm a friend's mental health. She is repeatedly seeing people on Instagram doing elaborate things - decoration, cooking, parenting, etc., and it's giving her unrealistic expectations about what standards she should be upholding in everything she does, be it cooking or crafting or interior décor or parenting or whatever. She isn't just tr…

I see it all as "magic tricks" to varying degrees.

The "reveal" may look cool, but what they did and how much time/effort/money it took to get the result is hidden from you.

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#167
post #121
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What expertise in law do you have to make such a stunning conclusion about Facebook's liability? Is there any precedent for media companies being held liable over such a thing? Do you also understand that if it were true that Facebook could be held legally liable for what you're claiming, that it wouldn't matter if they admit it or not. Admission of liability or guilt is never a requirement to be awarded damages or s…

Generally, admitting that your product causes a medical problem makes it easy for people to sue you over it. You’re right that they could be sued even if they don’t admit it, but then they would have a defense which would be far weaker if they had already admitted it.

Especially true if you are holding evidence that you knew it caused medical problems, but ignored that evidence and continued doing stuff that made it worse because it makes more money. At that point you pretty much have to start bribing people to look away, like the cigarette industry is notorious for.

Facebook has practically zero incentive to research damages they might be causing. Sure, they could do the ethically responsible thing and try to discover and mitigate issues... but if they were doing that, we wouldn't be at this state, would we?

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#168
post #88

> "The correlational evidence showing that there is a link between social media use and depression is pretty definitive at this point," said Jean Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State University. "The largest and most well-conducted studies that we have all show that teens who spend more time on social media are more likely to be depressed or unhappy." > Correlation is not causation, and one area of furth…

> Stepping back, it appears that screen time is correlated with depressive symptoms, with or without social media You might have some other study to back it up, but from the study you've cited we can't conclude that, because they measure screen time without any such breakdown . Social media could as well be the most important hidden variable.

It seems likely though, doesn't it? If you take away their social media, where would you expect the depressed users to go next? TV in particular is something that has surely been researched, as it was probably the biggest sedentary "escape" prior to the internet, and the linked study would surely cite other research which eventually includes this.

The lit review cites two prior studies, both are quite interesting:

> People who spend > 4 h of screen time such as: TV watching and computer use, are at higher risk of developing depression (de Wit et al., 2011, Hamer et al., 2013). While, it is also reported that people with depressive symptoms spend significantly more hours in a day, watching TV and using computer (de Wit et al., 2011).

From the abstract of the first reference (de Wit et al):

> Our study sample consisted of 2353 participants (age 18–65) of whom 1701 had a current anxiety and/or depressive diagnosis and 652 were healthy controls. Anxiety and depression diagnoses were conducted using the DSM-IV based Composite International Diagnostic Interview. Controlling for sociodemographics and physical activity level we found that persons with a major depressive disorder (MDD) spend significantly more leisure time using the computer. We found that persons with dysthymia, panic disorder and agoraphobia spend significantly more daily hours watching television compared to controls.

So interestingly, the choice seems to correlate with severity of depression.

The other study was looked at possible causal mechanism between sedentary behavior (as defined by TV time) and depression. Since they focused on TV you can look at their own lit review and find TV-specific studies such as:

Lucas, M., Mekary, R., Pan, A., Mirzaei, F., O’Reilly, E.J., Willett, W.C., Koenen, K., Okereke, O.I., Ascherio, A., 2011. Relation between clinical depression risk and physical activity and time spent watching television in older women: a 10-year prospective follow-up study. Am. J. Epidemiol. 174, 1017–1027.

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#169
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say your effort wasn't very high then. Keywords to search for are "Mental anguish" and "Emotional distress". "Depression" is not a thing you can really sue for, but mental harm associated with it definitely is.

Given your response that you think emotional distress could in anyway be applicable here, I am fairly confident at this point that few people are properly informed to discuss the legality of this with the degree of certainty and authority that is being expressed. For one, as per White v. Monsanto [1] mental anguish and emotional distress requires "conduct that is heinous and beyond the standards of civilized decency…

Earlier you said:

> From my uninformed point of view that I am happy to be challenged on

Now you say:

> I think at this point it's quite clear that people are just speaking from a very superficial understanding or outright just making things up about this topic but are doing so as if they are subject matter experts

How would you know, if your point of view is uninformed?

Are you a lawyer?

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#170
post #169
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given your response that you think emotional distress could in anyway be applicable here, I am fairly confident at this point that few people are properly informed to discuss the legality of this with the degree of certainty and authority that is being expressed. For one, as per White v. Monsanto [1] mental anguish and emotional distress requires "conduct that is heinous and beyond the standards of civilized decency…

Earlier you said: > From my uninformed point of view that I am happy to be challenged on Now you say: > I think at this point it's quite clear that people are just speaking from a very superficial understanding or outright just making things up about this topic but are doing so as if they are subject matter experts How would you know, if your point of view is uninformed? Are you a lawyer?

I realized maybe a week or two ago regarding subjects that I am an expert on and professionally trained that people on Hacker News discuss it in a very uninformed manner and out of ignorance and that this ignorance spreads across the site like wildfire. People make bold and categorical claims that one would only expect of a subject matter expert when it's clear that they're anything but that. The issue is that the number of experts on a topic is much smaller than the number of people who read a comment, find it appealing, and upvote it, so it's hard to dispel a lot of misinformation. Furthermore based on my own experience, the amount of effort needed to demonstrate that someone is wrong is significant, consumes a lot of time, and even if you manage to do so, it likely is nested deep within the conversation and goes unnoticed.

In my own area of expertise, I have literally been downvoted for providing links to primary sources that conclusively disprove unsourced claims.

So given that I know that discussions in my area of expertise on this site is full of misinformation, I have now come to doubt the quality and reliability of conversations on this site on some other topics that tend to attract a lot of assertive discussion. Topics that don't attract a lot of assertive discussion still seem legit, for example few people make assertions or categorical claims in physics discussions or pure math discussions and the few who do I think are trustworthy since they tend to provide extensive explanations justifications, and sources. Most people in those topics are inquisitive, they ask questions, they make clear that they have an opinion or a belief and wonder if others share that opinion... but when it comes to law people just downright state things as if they're facts and they're qualified to know that it's a fact.

So I now doubt that many people on this site who discuss the law with such authority are remotely informed to do so and that motivated my original line of inquiry; is the original poster and everyone else in agreement with them actually informed to understand the law to make such a big statement on the subject, or are they just making things up the same way people on this site make things up about the topic that I know I am an expert on. Are other readers upvoting comments because they can verify it and upvotes are serving as a kind of quality control mechanism, or are people upvoting comments that sound appealing and that they wish was true, but really are not qualified to know, and hence upvotes are a reflection of this site's ignorance on a topic.

I can only answer that for myself, but I think the replies to my line of inquiry have been poor and misinformed, and so I think the best way to make use of this site going forward is to avoid participating in discussions other than those I think still retain some degree of quality: physics, math, machine learning, things where I trust there are enough experts here that no one would make such strong claims that are false without being shut down by the community for doing so.

Law, biology and health care, the environment, finance/economics are not among those topics.

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