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Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

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Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#591

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How is someone mining on GPUs they bought themselves infringing on your freedom, pray tell?

The extra power usage is destroying our planet all for someone to try and make a quick buck, and causing shortages of GPUs during a pandemic where mental health from entertainment like gaming is valuable and stops people from going outside and getting/spreading the virus. The incentives for crypto all are f'ed up right now. The ETH PoS switch can't come soon enough.

> The ETH PoS switch can't come soon enough.

Profitability doesn't go down considerably with other cryptos that are efficient on 30 series cards: https://whattomine.com/coins?aq_380=0&aq_fury=0&aq_470=0&aq_... (see the 'Rev. $ Profit' column)

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#592
post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is unsustainable about Bitcoin?

Is there anything sustainable about Bitcoin? But getting back on topic, Bitcoin miners long since moved to custom ASICs, you can't make a profit with GPUs any more.

I make $7-8 per day, after electrical costs, letting my 2080ti (normally used for flight sim, but when not in use…) run nicehash’s miner software. My electricity costs $0.0816 per kWh.

Not a ton of money but it adds up after a month and the GPU was a sunk cost since I got it for gaming. It literally is profitable, for my situation anyway.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#593
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP's question was about _how_ it detects it has been mining. Does it have a list of processes or executable names of popular mining software? Does it perform some kind of heuristic and detect if the code it is about to execute corresponds to a hashing algorithm? I don't know the answer, I hope someone can explain it to me and GP.

nVidia has been deliberately vague about exactly what they are detecting because it would make it easy for miners to develop a workaround. That said, Anandtech wrote about it briefly recently: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16648/nvidia-updates-geforce-... They surmise that there is hardware-enforcement of BIOS\Drivers via some blown eFuses. Also they imply that nVidia does multiple checks such as whether it's runnin…

I've seen HDMI plugs listed on eBay which supposedly "double the hash rate" on 3060. I figured it was some kind of scam but didn't know they were throttled.

I'm curious about how this is implemented.

I'm also somewhat skeptical about GPU makers doing this for compute in general.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#594
post #21

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Can't it be both? Seems like a win-win for Nvidia and gamers. I can genuinely see a company like Nvidia getting a lot of customer feedback and maybe employees actually caring that gamers can get their hands on Nvidia's cards.

companies are people too!

Globo Chem "We own everything so you don't have to"

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#595

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They are not economic parasites. They are the physical manifestation of the Invisible Hand. These are people doing God's work making an efficient market. If you don't want arbitrageurs to capture that value, maybe NVidia should start pricing their products correctly so that they capture the value. This isn't rocket science. > If this has any effect on anybody who isn’t a crypto miner, it’s going to be to open up poss…

> They are not economic parasites. They are the physical manifestation of the Invisible Hand. Why do you (apparently) imagine these things are mutually exclusive? > maybe NVidia should start pricing their products correctly so that they capture the value I do happen to agree with this in principle, up to a point, and I've said as much in the past. It's easier said than done, though, especially when the scarcity is ex…

> Why do you (apparently) imagine these things are mutually exclusive?

An economic parasite extracts rent. Arbitrageurs add value by reducing spreads, adding liquidity, and improving allocative efficiency.

> Ultimately, Nvidia may feel that it makes more sense to (attempt to) cater to the steady, predictable consumer market for their products, rather than alienating those buyers in favor of crypto miners during a period when they aren't able to satisfy both. On the face of it, not having intimate insider knowledge of their business, I can't say I think it's a bad judgment call.

That's fine; it's their prerogative. But people should understand that it's NVidia's policies, not crypto miners, that are responsible for supply shortages in traditional retail channels and making arbitrageurs rich. The blame is entirely misplaced.

> You obviously think you're very smart and everyone around you is not nearly as smart, but you're just going to have to live with the fact that I and many others disagree with you here. And you've shown with everything after this line that continuing to discuss this tricky (and very interesting) moral question with you would be a total waste of time, so I'm not going to bother.

You're wrong about that, but you're right that I'm going to have to live with the fact that people disagree with me. Same thing goes for you.

I think it's a real stretch to call this a moral issue. But you're right that this conversation is unlikely to have a productive end. Way too many jimmies have been rustled.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#596
post #582
post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's three main ways GPUs wear out, silicon electromigration, electrolytic capacitor dryout, and fan bearing failure. And the first two happen much faster at higher temperatures. Temperatures are similar between gaming and mining, but miners run 24/7 compared to gaming 1-2 hrs/day, so the GPUs age like 10x faster. But still, GPU failures are pretty rare, I think the concern is overblown.

Miners undervolt and often underclock though: heat is their enemy, so they’re more particular about this than gamers are these days.

Totally true- I went through the process of manually overclocking my 2080ti for max hash rate and the best settings involved setting a power limit that is less than half the card’s 100% limit.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#597
post #2

Does this behavior anger anyone else on a deep level? I get that its hard to buy GPUs right now, but this seems like such an attack on general purpose computing. Hardware manufactures already segment features between consumer and busness grade parts that the silicon itself is capable of, such as virtualization, but restricting what algorithms one can run is a whole new level. I am pretty sure my next GPU is going to…

GPUs by definition are not general purpose computers. Remember the G in GPU stands for Graphics, not General.

That hasn't been true in a very long time. You can run arbitrary code on a GPU.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#598
post #322

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I don't think this is "recognizing customers", I think this is just sectioning markets. I'd dreading Nvidia crippling deep learning for all those not paying X more dollars (as the situation already is for server farms). Long term, the aim has to be selling cards by usage rather than by cost of production (obvious with the aim of prices higher than the cost of production by different amounts). How many people like Ado…

> I'd dreading Nvidia crippling deep learning for all those not paying X more dollars (as the situation already is for server farms). This already changed years ago when NVIDIA removed the last non-crippled double and half precision GPUs from their product lineup. The cheapest GPU you can buy for ML now is the titan v, which was $3000 at launch.

They have been going the other way recently: Titan V ($3000) -> Titan RTX ($2500) -> RTX 3090 ($1500). The 3090 beats the Titan RTX in double precision and is close to 2x in single precision.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#599
post #497
post #441

This won't really do anything for availability or reducing scalper pricing. Miners are a sizeable proportion of sales but far from the majority. Gamers will be able to buy more of these GPUs but less of the non-LHR or AMD GPU's. GPU prices won't actually change. The real reason Nvidia is doing this is that when mining profitability inevitably drops, either because of a crypto price crash or Ethereum moving to Proof o…

One of the issues people have mentioned in this thread is that cards sold by miners are often burnt out or nearly burnt out. In that case, it seems like cutting off miners from the secondary market would be an improvement for the secondary market.

I someone who hasn't bought a /new/ card since a 980ti, I find this talk of 'crypto burned gpus' to be a bunch of hooey. 1080ti x3, 1660ti x2, 2080ti x2... (We keep three gamers in cards around here, those aren't 'oh noes, this one fried, get another)... not one of them has had an issue.

Nor did the six P104s I picked up for an research project. And those cards smelled.. funny. I'm pretty sure they'd never seen aircon, and had no identifiable oem markings that I could find, but afaik, they're still chugging along 18 months after /whatever/ was done to them in their former life.

Honestly, I wonder if 'gpu burn' wasn't nvidia's first attempt to mitigate the cashflow drain of the crypto-cast-off-market.. before they decided it was more convenient to blame the need for drastic measures on a supply chain issue of their own design. -sigh-

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#600
post #460
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does, but that the fact that the ponzy scheme that is cryptocurrency hasn't been made illegal by now should angers me even more.

That's inaccurate, a core feature of Ponzi schemes is that they require fraudulent activity, where someone is lying to participants about how much money is "theirs" and the way in which it grows. Cryptocurrencies don't do that, the system isn't lying to you about how many whatevercoins you own. Pyramid-scheme? Maybe. Pump-and-dump? Happens sometimes. Hugely speculative asset? Definitely.

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