Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research • Hacker News Board

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#121

Post by zepto » Wed, May 19, 2021, 1:58 AM UTC

Kranar wrote: post #100

ipnon wrote: post #12

Note that Facebook does not have the choice to agree. To do so would be to open Facebook to unimaginable legal liability. So Facebook's opinion in the matter is moot. There are practically no inputs to this function that will change its behavior.

What expertise in law do you have to make such a stunning conclusion about Facebook's liability? Is there any precedent for media companies being held liable over such a thing? Do you also understand that if it were true that Facebook could be held legally liable for what you're claiming, that it wouldn't matter if they admit it or not. Admission of liability or guilt is never a requirement to be awarded damages or s…

Generally, admitting that your product causes a medical problem makes it easy for people to sue you over it.

You’re right that they could be sued even if they don’t admit it, but then they would have a defense which would be far weaker if they had already admitted it.

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#122

Post by whereis » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:00 AM UTC

Back in 1997, I briefly hung around a criminal who ran a crew known to the feds. I'd drive around with him on non-crime stuff related to his "day job" (front).

I've been dealing with various forms of stalking, hacking, harassment and targeting since, almost certainly tied back in large part to that brief association in 1997. Last spring (2020), this man who I haven't seen or communicated with since the late 1990's, was scheduled to be released from federal prison. Around that day, my Facebook's "people you may know" was littered with county sheriffs and task force types in his area, all shown to me in a row. I have been thousands of miles away from that area since the mid 2000's.

I'm at a major low point now, middle aged, broken down, homeless, defeated with learned helplessness well-established. Being targeted for so long was a major contributing factor. The irony is that I didn't engage in criminal activity with this person, and only hung around him briefly.

Facebook, I'd like to see all of the data you keep on me. The secret dossier, the govt lists, the algos you use, the logs you've created, the supposed "ai we don't understand". All of it. Same for google, twitter and the rest.

Information asymmetry isn't making end users happy in many cases. I'm fucking creeped out by these malicious machines we've allowed SV to create. Thank God I don't have kids because I plan on departing this shithole ape planet soon -- it ain't gonna get better any time soon.

Needless to say, I don't use FB any longer.

Fsck Facebook. And Google, twitter and reddit. I've been targeted on all of these platforms and more.

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#123

Post by sriku » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:01 AM UTC

azemetre wrote: post #52

It's very odd, I use to use Instagram and it would make me depressed. IDK how to explain, I don't even have any friends on there I follow. Just something about seeing everyone at their best 100% of the time, doing amazing things 100% of the time, never facing adversity 100% of the time. I know it's not realistic but it still gets to your head. I uninstalled it from my phone I feel better about myself after a few week…

The self doubt it can sow is horrible, but the way out is to realise you're in the matrix and it isn't real. For the younger populace, this is more dangerous because they haven't had much time (relatively) to experience the reality of life outside of the coloured glasses that social media offers.

I hadn't used my FB account in about 8 years but hadn't deleted it. Just did that a few days ago and the sense of closure was awesome!

In India, there is a psychological tendency to blame the person rather than the tool, so I'm even more afraid for people here.I mean a case like the suit against McDonald for hot coffee spilled on lap would be laughed at here. i.e. I'm expecting that "you're feeling depressed due to social media, you're the problem" kind of statements might actually fly with the people. I also see this changing for the better, so .. hopeful.

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#124

Post by anonu » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:03 AM UTC

azemetre wrote: post #52

It's very odd, I use to use Instagram and it would make me depressed. IDK how to explain, I don't even have any friends on there I follow. Just something about seeing everyone at their best 100% of the time, doing amazing things 100% of the time, never facing adversity 100% of the time. I know it's not realistic but it still gets to your head. I uninstalled it from my phone I feel better about myself after a few week…

I've stopped using Facebook, IG, etc.. What worked for me is to not completely disconnect. Instead, remove the apps from your phone and turn off all forms of notifications.

These apps want your attention. But you should only give it to them when you want. Not when they tell you.

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#125

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:03 AM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #118

azemetre wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being addicted to anything is a massive trigger for depression, especially when it displaces productive activities and replaces them with sedentary consumption. If you can't use something without becoming addicted, it's best to not use it at all. I know it sounds trite but I feel like social media today (or maybe all forms of media honestly) makes the barrier to ill-will extremely easy. If you were a young adult (a…

> How can I as an individual compete with billion dollar companies that literally hire neuroscientists/psychologists to make something as addictive as possible? If someone can't moderate their own consumption of something despite their best efforts, abstinence works. Similar story with alcohol: Plenty of people have no problem moderating their consumption, but a small percentage of people really struggle with limitin…

> If someone can't moderate their own consumption of something despite their best efforts, abstinence works.

No, if someone can’t moderate their own consumption, abstinence usually fails.

If a person finds something both easily resistable without immediate past use and hard to moderate immediately after use, abstinence works, but that’s not a super common response. People who have trouble moderating use immediately after a prior use also usually have problems resisting initial use.

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#126

Post by tapland » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:10 AM UTC

sriku wrote: post #123

azemetre wrote: post #52

It's very odd, I use to use Instagram and it would make me depressed. IDK how to explain, I don't even have any friends on there I follow. Just something about seeing everyone at their best 100% of the time, doing amazing things 100% of the time, never facing adversity 100% of the time. I know it's not realistic but it still gets to your head. I uninstalled it from my phone I feel better about myself after a few week…

The self doubt it can sow is horrible, but the way out is to realise you're in the matrix and it isn't real. For the younger populace, this is more dangerous because they haven't had much time (relatively) to experience the reality of life outside of the coloured glasses that social media offers. I hadn't used my FB account in about 8 years but hadn't deleted it. Just did that a few days ago and the sense of closure…

I keep my account, but use Facebook as a tool, not as entertainment.

I use it to search for items I need on the marketplace. I use it to join group chats for small events and organization since it would be a hassle to get neighbors and their friends to ditch it for my sake.

I haven't opened instagram in ages, but keep it around for the very odd link to a post on it, and the same with Twitter.

It has absolutely improved my mood. Even cutting down on HN is good, and cutting reddit from my life was the biggest relief I've experienced.

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#127

Post by topspin » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:11 AM UTC

galonk wrote: post #4

Facebook is the new tobacco industry.

________ is the new tobacco industry.

If researchers can produce a result that convinces the powers that be that facebook is a mental health issue they can produce a result that gaming or violent movies or maybe something you indulge is a mental health issue.

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#128

Post by Kranar » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:16 AM UTC

zepto wrote: post #121

Kranar wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What expertise in law do you have to make such a stunning conclusion about Facebook's liability? Is there any precedent for media companies being held liable over such a thing? Do you also understand that if it were true that Facebook could be held legally liable for what you're claiming, that it wouldn't matter if they admit it or not. Admission of liability or guilt is never a requirement to be awarded damages or s…

Generally, admitting that your product causes a medical problem makes it easy for people to sue you over it. You’re right that they could be sued even if they don’t admit it, but then they would have a defense which would be far weaker if they had already admitted it.

Okay, let's say I don't believe you and I have made a good faith effort to look into this subject and have found no evidence that anyone has ever been sued for causing depression, do you have any evidence or way to substantiate your claim and demonstrate to me that you are correct? I am aware of emotional distress lawsuits, but what's being claimed here is quite different.

Do I have no choice but to take you at your word that you're right about what is a pretty big legal claim being made here. Are people just making up things about how the law works, or am I genuinely just very ignorant on this subject?

In other words, can you cite the legal principal here, or precedent, or some kind of actual reference that shows some kind of informed discussion is taking place on this subject instead of a bunch of people making uninformed claims that sound appealing?

From my uninformed point of view that I am happy to be challenged on, suing Facebook for causing depression makes about as much sense as suing McDonald's for obesity. There is no legal principal upon which one could successfully do so and while people have tried, they failed miserably [1] (as in the case was dismissed with prejudice, which is one of the worst outcomes).

[1] https://money.cnn.com/2003/01/22/news/companies/mcdonalds/

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#129

Post by Forge36 » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

azemetre wrote: post #52

It's very odd, I use to use Instagram and it would make me depressed. IDK how to explain, I don't even have any friends on there I follow. Just something about seeing everyone at their best 100% of the time, doing amazing things 100% of the time, never facing adversity 100% of the time. I know it's not realistic but it still gets to your head. I uninstalled it from my phone I feel better about myself after a few week…

I had to unfollow a couple of people. There's "having a good time" and there's "constant idyllic life". If you aren't careful it turns from "keeping up with x" to "comparing against x".

Re: Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

#130

Post by 55555 » Wed, May 19, 2021, 2:18 AM UTC

f430 wrote: post #104

azemetre wrote: post #52

It's very odd, I use to use Instagram and it would make me depressed. IDK how to explain, I don't even have any friends on there I follow. Just something about seeing everyone at their best 100% of the time, doing amazing things 100% of the time, never facing adversity 100% of the time. I know it's not realistic but it still gets to your head. I uninstalled it from my phone I feel better about myself after a few week…

You are using it wrong. I use it to scout models and vulnerable insecure girls

just checked your bio. at least you're using their preferred pronouns.