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Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

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Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#531

Post by johncolanduoni »

krapht wrote: post #425
dijit wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because, yeah, having ex-miner cards burn out is a pretty common thing on the used market. This is mostly a myth, miners cards are usually undervolted, and only a subset of the card is used. If your CPU only used it's floating point unit then it wouldn't be as intense as if you were using the whole thing. The only potential issue is thermal damage, but that's hard to place and has to be close to, or in excess of 90…

? My CPU actually underclocks itself if I am running a heavy AVX-512 workload. Actually, back when I had it in a cheaper motherboard, my system would crash because the MB couldn't deliver enough power to the CPU. But I agree with the first sentence. Lots of miner cards are undervolted because what matters is performance per watt, just like many server cpus.

It underclocks, but generates more heat in the AVX-512 case (that’s the whole reason for the underclocking). If miners are undervolting to reduce power consumption, heat generation is going to lower by necessity.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#532

Post by SavantIdiot »

wbraun wrote: post #2

Does this behavior anger anyone else on a deep level? I get that its hard to buy GPUs right now, but this seems like such an attack on general purpose computing. Hardware manufactures already segment features between consumer and busness grade parts that the silicon itself is capable of, such as virtualization, but restricting what algorithms one can run is a whole new level. I am pretty sure my next GPU is going to…

> Does this behavior anger anyone else on a deep level?

Since you're asking about feelings: Nope. I'm not a miner, and I believe the whole crypto thing is a pyramid scheme that is basically gambling in another form, so I'm not angered. In fact, I'm glad: I hope it keeps uninformed people from spending huge sums on bogus "get rich quick" schemes, just like the 2008 housing market was enabled by people who didn't understand balloon mortgages, and slimy lenders that exploited them. Now if I could only convince my friends that are losing their shirts in DOGE + Robinhood to cut their losses and put that money into actual investments.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#533

Post by detaro »

didericis wrote: post #508
cletus wrote: post #490

I hope this is more successful than the last attempt (3060 Ti) where the "crippling" was just software and it was quickly circumvented, partly through NVidia's own screw up (they released a beta driver that didn't have that limitation). It's almost impossible to buy a GPU now. Anywhere you can occasionally buy them is heavily botted. Some sellers try and mitigate this eg Zotac has a queue system of questionable effec…

> Apologists will point to most crypto-mining using renewable energy. Yes, because hydro is the cheapest power. But all the hydro power use can actually limit the power and/or make it more expensive for everyone else. As an admitted apologist, that's one of the weaker arguments. The most compelling to me is that power usage isn't properly compared to traditional banking. Sustaining all of the people and in person inf…

The focus is on transaction layer because that is what the crypto currencies provides. The blockchain doesn't run customer support, doesn't handle cash logistics, doesn't decide in conflicts involving the real world (e.g. if you do a blockchain escrow thing with multisig or smart contracts or whatever to give customers the equivalent of chargebacks in case of fraud, you still need humans to make the decision), ... so you can not just pretend all those human roles go away - and the people already working in blockchain ecosystems also aren't calculated against the blockchains in the calculations. Deciding which ones won't exist in the hypothetical all-blockchain world has far-reaching consequences, and probably something there is little consensus on. Proposals and estimations based on that would be interesting though.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#534

Post by princeb »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #511
cle wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know much about GPUs and am curious how this "burn out" happens, do you have a link for those of us who'd like to read more about this?

If your GPUs run too long hot, the board literally starts to melt (the plastics, solder, etc).

on contrary, miners tend to run gpus undervolted and underclocked for efficiency. gamers tend to run gpus overclocked (and sometimes overvolted) for performance.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#535

Post by actually_a_dog »

RhysU wrote: post #507
actually_a_dog wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real reason Nvidia is doing this is that when mining profitability inevitably drops, either because of a crypto price crash or Ethereum moving to Proof of Stake, the miners will flood the used market and ruin Nvidia's profits for a few quarters. Nvidia is trying to get miners to buy mining-only cards, because those can't be sold to gamers down the line. They'd rather mining cards become e-waste in a few years t…

Someone learned from the Cisco hardware glut in the dot com crash!

Learned what? How to create a bunch of junk that will be unusable in a few years?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#536

Post by drexlspivey »

saurik wrote: post #473
judge2020 wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethash is actually more profitable when underclocking and power limiting the card for max efficiency. With cheap electricity around $0.10/kWh this can mean $0.30 a day on $7 in profit. a 3070 with an average 60 Mh/s: https://whattomine.com/coins/151-eth-ethash?hr=60&p=120&fee=...

Ok, so now I am dying to understand how this could possibly be the case, as this isn't how the economics are supposed to work... like, according to this calculator, I could make $5 with the old graphics cards in my PC, and I live in California (where I would expect expensive power). Like, the premise is supposed to be that if there is that much profit to be made mining, people will mine, the hash rate will skyrocket,…

ETH price is +500% YTD and it’s not really worth it to buy hardware to mine now because in less than a year it is expected to move to proof of stake (no more mining)

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#537

Post by Dylan16807 »

kbenson wrote: post #449
Justsignedup wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add on: none of it is malicious. its just the market stabalization problem a) let's keep consumer grade stuff stable in price b) let's charge miners 3x, because they willing to pay 3x, and destroy the scalping market which is VERY anti everything. Scalpers hurt literally everyone. c) let's not de-stabalize nvidia's income again when eth drops in value. They don't want to be beholden to a coin's gamble either. Basi…

> Scalpers hurt literally everyone. Not entirely true, and also not accepting that one person's "scalper" is another person's "bought this but decided I would rather have the money it seems to be worth now that I see how much this is". Secondary markets provide liquidity, allow for original sellers to trade money for time, provide reputational protection based on societal perceptions (this one is a bit weird, and may…

> Not entirely true, and also not accepting that one person's "scalper" is another person's "bought this but decided I would rather have the money it seems to be worth now that I see how much this is".

Even just dropping resales to one GPU per person per year would make an enormous difference, let alone if it was limited to people that genuinely bought the one GPU for themselves.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#538

Post by addicted »

akelly wrote: post #441

This won't really do anything for availability or reducing scalper pricing. Miners are a sizeable proportion of sales but far from the majority. Gamers will be able to buy more of these GPUs but less of the non-LHR or AMD GPU's. GPU prices won't actually change. The real reason Nvidia is doing this is that when mining profitability inevitably drops, either because of a crypto price crash or Ethereum moving to Proof o…

Edited to remove incorrect info.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#539

Post by renewiltord »

just-ok wrote: post #344
renewiltord wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A principle is a moral heuristic so you don't have to scan to root of your moral argument tree on every moral question. As a heuristic, it attempts to compress the moral space down and will naturally have exceptions. As a compressed form of your moral judgment, it is also useful for you to quickly communicate your position on the moral space, and it is up to participants in social interactions to decide whether or no…

I think your loose definition of “principle” does not meet many others’: it’s definitely intended to be stricter than a heuristic. Of course even though you can have relaxed principles, e.g. “I usually don’t lie” vs. “I don’t lie,” I think the point here is that if you believe or preach a particular “principle,” but then adjust it for yourself when it’s convenient (for example a “just this once” scenario), it was nev…

Actually, observationally I believe my definition of principle to be far more accurate. People self-report principles as being far more immutable than they behave like.

I have not yet met someone who rigidly adheres to theirs. Perhaps if I had met the Dalai Lama but nearly everyone else will find that the moral space is so fraught that they cannot adequately compress it into immutable laws.

Usually, should one demand such adherence one would find one met with accusations of “looking at the world in black and white” and “lacking nuance”.

Of course I don’t really intend to change your mind, but I do intend to transmit what I have observed.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#540

Post by TrainedMonkey »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #517
toomuchtodo wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your GPUs run too long hot, the board literally starts to melt (the plastics, solder, etc).

Miners care enough about power efficiency and longevity; they don't run cards super hot.

Most scale oriented mining rigs I've seen pack cards super close together, even if you run them at reduced frequencies thermal environment is not great. See https://us.v-cdn.net/5021640/uploads/editor/do/j86gsm9cxvl2.... for example.

Aside from a few top end models modern desktop GPUs are not designed for continuous operation at max load. When you combine than with higher temperature the lifespan of the cards is indeed reduced. The real question is how much this matters.

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