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Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

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391–400 of 818 posts

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#391
post #2

Does this behavior anger anyone else on a deep level? I get that its hard to buy GPUs right now, but this seems like such an attack on general purpose computing. Hardware manufactures already segment features between consumer and busness grade parts that the silicon itself is capable of, such as virtualization, but restricting what algorithms one can run is a whole new level. I am pretty sure my next GPU is going to…

I dunno, the freedom fighter in me thinks this is a terrible idea, but my rationale says that it doesn't make much of a difference. Nvidia's hash rate limitation is really their way of telling miners that they aren't interested in their business. I suppose I could see Nvidia taking a hard left turn here and stopping acceleration for other things (like ML and physics calculations), but why would they? CudNN and PhysX are already such massive investments to them that throwing it out would break comparability with several games/apps and outrage the professional/consumer market.

So given how few choices Nvidia has, I think I trust them to call this. At the very least, it should reduce their hardware demand to tolerable levels, so they can focus on securing better silicon rather than simply more.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's honestly pretty surprising to me to see how many people on here are supporting this move. That's not what I would expect, I would expect people on HN to object to this move on principle. Maybe my prediction in where most HN commenters stand in principle on this issue is wrong, or just maybe, this is a rare example of a time when the principle (hardware should be free to run at their max capability, not deliberat…

Without price discrimination, everyday users end up paying more for a given product while for-profit entities would pay less. When a company releases a product, they price it according to how much profit they want to make per unit sold. Market segmentation allows them to sell their product at a lower margin to lower income users and shift much of that profit burden to corporate customers who can easily afford it. Whe…

Why does Nvidia even want to sell to low-priced buyers, if they are saturating their manufacturing capacity with the high-priced buyers alone?

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#393
post #2

Does this behavior anger anyone else on a deep level? I get that its hard to buy GPUs right now, but this seems like such an attack on general purpose computing. Hardware manufactures already segment features between consumer and busness grade parts that the silicon itself is capable of, such as virtualization, but restricting what algorithms one can run is a whole new level. I am pretty sure my next GPU is going to…

You can still buy unlocked GPUs. What is wrong with creating a new product people want? I want a gaming GPU that is powerful and reasonably priced and actually available to be purchased. Unless Nvidia does this, how else can they provide that product for me?

And unless Nvidia does this, what does their market look like in 5 or 10 years?

People won't wait around not upgrading their systems forever because the price of their cards has been bid up by crypto miners to unaffordable levels.

At some point Nvidia simply won't have a consumer market anymore. They'll let go of a market-leading position in favour of the crypto miners.

What are they going to do when the crypto mining goes away?

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#394
post #381

Folks, the GTX 1070s 8GB coming with 2017 laptops are still good enough for literally any semi-professional, non-mining application out there, from machine learning to gaming. With a few hacks and the right hardware setup, they can still do not-so-clever professionals happy. Therefore, this is a full supply-demand problem, with Nvidia facing its first, real catch-22 maturity problem: how do they sell new GPUs to happ…

Nvidia is betting DLSS and Ray Tracing will be the killer features to get you to upgrade

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#395
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your criticism is valid, but I don’t think it’s sensible to adhere to principles in a black and white way. For me, the minor restriction put in place by Nvidia is the lesser evil when you consider that they could just as well sell out to the miners and drastically increase their margins. In fact, I think it’s a very sympathetic move. I don’t think “it will be broken” is a good argument, because the intent dis…

Their intent is to limit what people can do with their hardware. That strikes me as almost morally wrong. I tell the computer what to do. It doesn't tell me what to do. I think cryptocurrency is a scam and I'll be glad if/when it goes away and graphics cards become cheap again. However, I will never support hardware manufacturers infringing on the idea of general purpose computing for the sake of their business model…

> Their intent is to limit what people can do with their hardware. That strikes me as almost morally wrong. I tell the computer what to do. It doesn't tell me what to do.

If you need to run millions of hashes per second then buy one of the non-LHR models. No one is forcing you to buy one of these chips and Nvidia is not taking anything away from you.

This is like saying that Intel limits what people can do with their hardware because they make both i3 and i9 chips. There is a spectrum of options to fit more people's needs.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thrilled by this. This has been a common approach in I think almost every industry. What nvidia is doing is recognizing that the needs of existing long time consumers / clients / partners are not being met by the current situation. Yes, it inflates short term profits and increases their pricing power, but long run if you can't buy nvidia for your dev box, your game box etc, this reduces the long run nvidia ecosys…

To add on: none of it is malicious. its just the market stabalization problem a) let's keep consumer grade stuff stable in price b) let's charge miners 3x, because they willing to pay 3x, and destroy the scalping market which is VERY anti everything. Scalpers hurt literally everyone. c) let's not de-stabalize nvidia's income again when eth drops in value. They don't want to be beholden to a coin's gamble either. Basi…

I notice Microcenter has limited gpu sales to one per customer per month.

Its weird when brick and mortar are like limiting sales, but on the other hand, they want to keep pc builders happy.

https://community.microcenter.com/discussion/7334/graphic-ca...

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add on: none of it is malicious. its just the market stabalization problem a) let's keep consumer grade stuff stable in price b) let's charge miners 3x, because they willing to pay 3x, and destroy the scalping market which is VERY anti everything. Scalpers hurt literally everyone. c) let's not de-stabalize nvidia's income again when eth drops in value. They don't want to be beholden to a coin's gamble either. Basi…

Except that miners will simply workaround the downgrade software (as they did in the past) and regular consumers will be the only ones with crippled hardware

Nvidia is implementing a hardware fuse system (a-la the Nintendo Switch) to prevent firmware manipulation. I can't speak to how secure these new cards will be, but the Tegra was an absolute pain in the ass to work with. It took a year before people even figured out how the firmware was loaded, much less how to interoperate between custom and official ones without blowing a fuse. To this day, approaching half a decade since the Switch's launch, you cannot coldboot the Switch into custom firmware.

Considering Nvidia's history with hardware DRM, I think there's reason to be scared. Plus, they've undoubtedly paid attention to the community as the Switch was exploited, and probably intend to further secure the firmware interface with what they've learned.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#398
post #381

Folks, the GTX 1070s 8GB coming with 2017 laptops are still good enough for literally any semi-professional, non-mining application out there, from machine learning to gaming. With a few hacks and the right hardware setup, they can still do not-so-clever professionals happy. Therefore, this is a full supply-demand problem, with Nvidia facing its first, real catch-22 maturity problem: how do they sell new GPUs to happ…

This falls apart when you move to a 4k display. A 1070, a 4k display, hdr, and a new-ish game and you are lightyears from the 60fps that is a minimum for many gamers.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#399
post #125

I have a dumb theoretical question, but I genuinely don't understand the answer. Why wouldn't nvidia and amd or any other card maker just keep the cards and mine all the cryptocurrency for themselves?

Because cryptocurrencies are basically a pyramid scheme, the money for early investors is made by huge amounts of new people entering the pyramid. Lots of people enter the pyramid because they have seen early investors benefit greatly and they want to benefit too. It works very well until people start getting out of the pyramid(selling) and the same thing happens in inverse, people want to recover the money they inve…

“Because cryptocurrencies are basically a pyramid scheme, the money for early investors is made by huge amounts of new people entering the pyramid.”

I think your viewpoint could use some revision. You’ve either described any typical investment but I Uber it as a pyramid or you misunderstand the goals of crypto.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other people doing research etc. need GPUs . If rich people started to hoard all food or ffp masks, shops would intervene first (they did during the hoarding last year) and the government would follow if that wouldn't help.

I guess you are referring to the Tragedy of the Commons[0] but in the market efficient economy there should be enough producers(supply) to serve high aggregate demand. This action by NVIDIA only shows that GPU industry is highly concentrated and that more competition is needed. It seems like NVIDIA is a victim of its own success since it can not produce enough GPUs. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_co…

And if they simply raised prices and made huge profits, they could afford building their own fab, or at least outbidding other companies for TSMC/Samsung/whoever fab capacity...
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