Ad block shouldn't break your checkout • Hacker News Board

Re: Ad block shouldn't break your checkout

#161

Post by IvanK_net » Tue, May 18, 2021, 7:38 PM UTC

tux3 wrote: post #21

IvanK_net wrote: post #17

I am an author of a photo editor https://www.Photopea.com . Whenever someone reports a bug to me, I ask them if they use any site-modifying extensions. If they do, I ignore them completely, even if they wrote a long, detailed report. Web authors make websites for standard web browsers. I do not consider a browser with site-modifying extensions to be a standard web browser, and it is not my job to test my website with…

>I do not consider a browser with site-modifying extensions to be a standard web browser What do you consider a standard web browser? If someone ships a browser with Tracking Protection (like Firefox), or with NoScript preinstalled (like Tor Browser), or with another adblocker preinstalled, is that a standard browser because the user didn't modify it? Or is it based on the number of user. Is your standard browser rea…

A standard web browser is a browser, which runs a website according to web standards. If an extension e.g. replaces every image in a webpage with the image of Bill Gates, it is not a standard browser in my opinion, and users should not report it to me as a bug in my website.

Re: Ad block shouldn't break your checkout

#162

Post by dawnerd » Tue, May 18, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #102

dawnerd wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of ways to get that data without invasive tracking like GA.

Is the invasive part that the data is going to GA or that the failure-to-close-sale is explicitly being logged at all?

abandoned carts are pretty commonly stored in a database so a followup email can be fired off later in the way. You don't need GA for this.

Re: Ad block shouldn't break your checkout

#163

Post by nudgeee » Tue, May 18, 2021, 8:06 PM UTC

graton wrote: post #25

IvanK_net wrote: post #17

I am an author of a photo editor https://www.Photopea.com . Whenever someone reports a bug to me, I ask them if they use any site-modifying extensions. If they do, I ignore them completely, even if they wrote a long, detailed report. Web authors make websites for standard web browsers. I do not consider a browser with site-modifying extensions to be a standard web browser, and it is not my job to test my website with…

> I ask them if they use any site-modifying extensions. If they do, I ignore them completely, even if they wrote a long, detailed report. Note to self, don't use Photopea due to poor customer support. You would think the customer support would at least tell them to remove/disable the add-ons instead of ignoring them.

AFAIK Ivan is customer support, photopea is a one-man website, and one of the best out there.

Re: Ad block shouldn't break your checkout

#164

Post by Nextgrid » Tue, May 18, 2021, 8:18 PM UTC

adrr wrote: post #108

wai1234 wrote: post #30

Your checkout shouldn't trigger ad block. Stop slavishly bowing to GA everywhere. I'm about to give you money. That's the only 'analytic' you should care about. I'm tired of being treated as little more than a data cow, always ready for milking. Just. Stop. To the person who ignores people who complain because their 'non-standard' browsers fail on their site, why do you have a site if you don't care about your users…

I’ve seen adblocks take out anti-fraud libraries, localization libraries, accessibility libraries. They target things they shouldn’t.

“Anti-fraud” is just another word for spyware. If my bank supports 3D-Secure then your exposure to fraud is zero and you have no reason to stalk me for “anti-fraud” purposes.

Re: Ad block shouldn't break your checkout

#165

Post by derimagia » Tue, May 18, 2021, 8:21 PM UTC

IvanK_net wrote: post #160

IvanK_net wrote: post #17

I am an author of a photo editor https://www.Photopea.com . Whenever someone reports a bug to me, I ask them if they use any site-modifying extensions. If they do, I ignore them completely, even if they wrote a long, detailed report. Web authors make websites for standard web browsers. I do not consider a browser with site-modifying extensions to be a standard web browser, and it is not my job to test my website with…

An update: almost nobody pays for Photopea, and all my reports are from users who use it for free. I fixed over 3000 issues so far, some took minutes, others took weeks: https://github.com/photopea/photopea/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%... A "popular" issue is, that people use an extension, which renames files saved by Photopea to .TXT. It is reported several times a week and every time, I tell people to disable an extensi…

> the extension "Google docs offline" was renaming files form Photopea to .TXT. You are using the same extension.

https://github.com/photopea/photopea/issues/2294#issuecommen...

"Google docs offline" is an official extension from google which you get prompted to install when you go to Google Drive in Chrome without the extension installed. I don't think that caused anything and it looks like there was an actual bug you had:

> There really was a bug in Photopea. If you opened a file, whose name started with a dot . , like .myfile.psd, It was always exported as .TXT_ > I have fixed this bug. You can open files with any names now, and they should be saved under the right extension.

https://github.com/photopea/photopea/issues/3116#issuecommen...

It did seem like the issue was on your end and not the extensions though.

Re: Ad block shouldn't break your checkout

#166

Post by Nextgrid » Tue, May 18, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

IvanK_net wrote: post #17

I am an author of a photo editor https://www.Photopea.com . Whenever someone reports a bug to me, I ask them if they use any site-modifying extensions. If they do, I ignore them completely, even if they wrote a long, detailed report. Web authors make websites for standard web browsers. I do not consider a browser with site-modifying extensions to be a standard web browser, and it is not my job to test my website with…

> What kind of a mental process should a brain perform to conclude, that it is a bug in a website, and not in their extension, which is supposed to remove ads.

On the other hand you know how ad blocking works and if it’s not too much effort just change the class name?

If your website behaves like malware is it really the fault of antimalware software that blocks it? If there was a better way to detect malware, sure, but heuristics is the best we’ve got and they do sometimes break - if it’s not too much effort to make your website not behave like malware why not do it?

I fully agree with you about other, more intrusive site-modifying extensions, but ad-blockers are fairly lightweight and only target behavior that looks malicious, and it’s fairly easy not to trigger them.

Re: Ad block shouldn't break your checkout

#167

Post by Nextgrid » Tue, May 18, 2021, 8:34 PM UTC

recursive wrote: post #29

rallemoose wrote: post #20

I’ve reported this to Teespring and all they reply with is to try another browser and clear my cookies. They won’t listen. They’re basically making Teespring unusable for the technical crowd.

The *adblocker crowd. I think I'm in the "technical crowd" but I've never used an adblocker. Running non-compliant extensions is your right, but the results don't need to be supported. I've run into this situation a number of times, although not with adblock. My advice has been to disable the extensions, or use a different browser without them.

Browsing the web without an adblocker is like running unpatched Windows XP on a machine exposed to the internet.

Re: Ad block shouldn't break your checkout

#168

Post by adrr » Tue, May 18, 2021, 8:40 PM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #164

adrr wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen adblocks take out anti-fraud libraries, localization libraries, accessibility libraries. They target things they shouldn’t.

“Anti-fraud” is just another word for spyware. If my bank supports 3D-Secure then your exposure to fraud is zero and you have no reason to stalk me for “anti-fraud” purposes.

No one uses 3D secure in the US. As a consumer I don’t use 3D secure because it shifts the liability on to me. Why would I expose myself to that risk when using the card number puts all the risk on the merchant?

There is also more than just unauthorized purchased. There is also card testers that test to see if the card is still valid.

Re: Ad block shouldn't break your checkout

#169

Post by Nextgrid » Tue, May 18, 2021, 8:45 PM UTC

adrr wrote: post #168

Nextgrid wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Anti-fraud” is just another word for spyware. If my bank supports 3D-Secure then your exposure to fraud is zero and you have no reason to stalk me for “anti-fraud” purposes.

No one uses 3D secure in the US. As a consumer I don’t use 3D secure because it shifts the liability on to me. Why would I expose myself to that risk when using the card number puts all the risk on the merchant? There is also more than just unauthorized purchased. There is also card testers that test to see if the card is still valid.

My point is that if there's zero exposure to fraud then the purchase should go ahead regardless of whether the anti-fraud libraries load or provide a negative result.

So this means that users who expose the site to fraud must allow the anti-fraud libraries to track them, or switch to a bank that offers 3D-Secure so that liability is shifted to the bank and they no longer need to be tracked. Seems like a win-win situation.

> There is also card testers that test to see if the card is still valid.

Same scenario applies? If it's protected by 3D-Secure, who cares? The bank will end up paying the cost of it, not the merchant. If anything, this is a problem I'd love to have, as it means if I can identify those reliably I can keep pocketing money without even having to send out any actual goods.

Re: Ad block shouldn't break your checkout

#170

Post by DigitallyFidget » Tue, May 18, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

I've used adblock for so long that I completely forget it's even there. Consequently, I also forget how shitty most the internet is without it.

I never even thought about or realized that adblock may be why I have had issues with many different online retailers. I just assume "something is fukt with the site, or my browser, Vivaldi, is at fault" and then just buy the product elsewhere or buy a different/similar product instead.