Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards • Hacker News Board

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#221

Post by undersuit » Tue, May 18, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

wbraun wrote: post #2

Does this behavior anger anyone else on a deep level? I get that its hard to buy GPUs right now, but this seems like such an attack on general purpose computing. Hardware manufactures already segment features between consumer and busness grade parts that the silicon itself is capable of, such as virtualization, but restricting what algorithms one can run is a whole new level. I am pretty sure my next GPU is going to…

I felt similar anger for similar decisions. GPUs are complex pieces of hardware present in so much of our world but we are reliant on the manufacture to provide a driver to control the hardware. An open(source) driver is nice but doesn't allow you to do anything not documented, and open hardware is an nonstarter for capitalism with our weak IP laws(but hey let's protect a drawn mouse indefinitely.)

Nvidia has done things like this before and it can get worse. Imagine a future GPU where only authorized drivers have access to certain features, and I'm not talking about the difference between consumer and workstation GPUs unlocking a few obscure openGL functions in the drivers.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#222

Post by gruez » Tue, May 18, 2021, 9:09 PM UTC

justaguy88 wrote: post #93

NazakiAid wrote: post #56

A major bad point with this is when the mining cards become obsolete, they won't be able to be used as a graphics card in a computer due to it not being able to output to a display. So realistically it will decrease avaliable graphic card supply to gamers in the future who are maybe looking for a cheap used graphics card (therefore pushing people to buy a new card instead). Short term fix, long term problem. I was th…

Graphics cards without display outputs are still useful, you can use them for VFIO and gpgpu workloads

What's the market for second hand GPUs for scientific computing, compared to second hand GPUs for gaming?

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#223

Post by Vespasian » Tue, May 18, 2021, 9:09 PM UTC

ssully wrote: post #62

Scoundreller wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to be a fun future game of cat-and-mouse as miners figure out how to disable/bypass nvidia’s electronic countermeasures.

They previously did this with the 3060 cards, but accidently released beta drivers that unlocked the countermeasures [1]. I am sure people just start with using those drivers on the 3070/80 cards. [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/15/22331537/nvidia-rtx-3060-...

I think I read the new cards will require a higher driver version

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#224

Post by joshuahaglund » Tue, May 18, 2021, 9:09 PM UTC

akersten wrote: post #147

luma wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are clearly marking the new models with a new suffix on the model number. As someone who has been trying for months to buy a 3080 and has zero interest in crypto, this is fantastic news... IFF it means I can actually purchase a card. This doesn't make me angry, and I don't think it should make you angry either.

The e-Waste part is what should collectively anger us, but I'm glad you're able to buy your card.

I'm personally angry that this whole crypto ponzi scheme has gotten so big. That miners are producing e-Waste is the least of its environmental impact.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#225

Post by lottin » Tue, May 18, 2021, 9:09 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #175

warent wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because it's just not their business. They don't need to confuse their objectives with bitcoin to get rich, they're doing exceptionally well without it

Then why is Elon Musk trading Bitcoins? Tesla makes more money trading Bitcoin than selling cars. https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-makes-more-money-trading-...

Just because Elon Musk does something it doesn't mean it has to make sense. Tesla's shareholders can trade bitcoins themselves. They don't need Tesla to do that.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#226

Post by michaelmrose » Tue, May 18, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

wbraun wrote: post #2

Does this behavior anger anyone else on a deep level? I get that its hard to buy GPUs right now, but this seems like such an attack on general purpose computing. Hardware manufactures already segment features between consumer and busness grade parts that the silicon itself is capable of, such as virtualization, but restricting what algorithms one can run is a whole new level. I am pretty sure my next GPU is going to…

What if they do it effectively and AMD GPU end up twice as expensive because gamers and miners have to compete for cards and the miners want 30 and you want 1.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#227

Post by sp332 » Tue, May 18, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

rsuttongee wrote: post #194

I mean, the cards are selling at 3-4x MSRP right now. Won’t halving the hash rate just cause the price of the cards to drop to 1.5-2x MSRP and miners just buy twice as many? Possibly good for NVDIA I guess (selling twice the units assuming the can make enough), but I don’t see this helping gamers get cards in hands.

I think it's less about the upfront cost and more about hashes per kilowatt-hour.

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#228

Post by mrgordon » Tue, May 18, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

earthtolazlo wrote: post #161

akersten wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this works (spoiler: it won't, it will be cracked within a month), it will create more e-Waste as miners will toss their no-video-output-mining-only cards after they're no longer the latest tech, instead of being able to resell them to gamers, thinning the used graphics card market, forcing more gamers to buy new from nVidia instead of rebuying old cards online. That makes me angry, it should make you angry too.

Proof of work makes me angry. I have a difficult time getting too upset over any attempt to curtail it.

I’m not sure it curtails it rather than just generating new card types that can only mine coins and then are garbage

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#229

Post by UnFleshedOne » Tue, May 18, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #43

emsy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we didn’t have such a dire chip shortage I would be upset on principle, but I see this as a move that’s supposed to help long time customers get a hand at a Graphics card at a reasonable price. Once mining will ebb off, those customers are unlikely to keep buying Nvidia products so it’s entirely understandable why they would do this. Also, it’s not like on iOS where the company whitelists apps, this is a very spec…

"If we didn’t have such a dire X I would be upset on principle, but I see this as a move that’s supposed to help ..." What worth is a principle if you don't still have it when it get challenged? Then it's just a opinion, which is fine by itself and it's ok to change opinion, smart people do it all the time. But don't call it a principle. Unlikely that mining will disappear because NVIDIA limits a specific algoritm/cl…

How big is each of your principles (in terms of information complexity) that they cover significant enough number of all possible conditions and circumstances?

Re: Nvidia cripples cryptocurrency mining on RTX 3080 and 3070 cards

#230

Post by gruez » Tue, May 18, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #21

Grimm1 wrote: post #15

Can't drive people to the mining cards they've released if you have everyone using the consumer hardware. As someone who really likes the performance and ecosystem around NVIDIA cards this makes me happy, because I'll probably be able to own one sometime before the heat death of the universe if trends like this continue. But, "To help get GeForce GPUs in the hands of gamers," Is a load of crock. They have a new minin…

Can't it be both? Seems like a win-win for Nvidia and gamers. I can genuinely see a company like Nvidia getting a lot of customer feedback and maybe employees actually caring that gamers can get their hands on Nvidia's cards.

I think the cynicism is akin to apple removing the charger/headphones from new iPhones. They claim it's for environmental purposes, and maybe they really do care, but many think it's just a cash grab.