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Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

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Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#651

Post by virtue3 »

URSpider94 wrote: post #648
virtue3 wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so Tim. https://spacenews.com/pentagon-report-china-amassing-arsenal...

At this point, destroying the positioning network/s would be mutually assured destruction. Pretty much every country relies on those networks equally for controlling their own vehicles and weaponry.

Some of those systems do. Not all.

" It is an Inertial Guidance System with an additional Star-Sighting system (this combination is known as astro-inertial guidance), which is used to correct small position and velocity errors that result from launch condition uncertainties due to errors in the submarine navigation system and errors that may have accumulated in the guidance system during the flight due to imperfect instrument calibration. GPS has been used on some test flights but is assumed not to be available for a real mission. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trident_(missile)

Tomahawk missiles are also fed a navigation package before launch which allows them to navigate without additional signals (I'm sure accuracy goes up if they do have GPS available). I believe it's something akin to terrain maps that it can use to navigate to it's target.

I would argue that any nation that is reliant on those public networks to be effective are going to lose within minutes of an actual conflict.

I believe it's already established that the Russians are capable of completely blocking out GPS signals.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/vladimir-putin/russia-spoofing-...

So no, I don't think we'd be facing mutually assured destruction.

Now the impact on civilian life if some nation decided to start the space wars? Catastrophic. We'd basically block off space for the next 100 years because of deadly debris in orbit :/

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#652

Post by deanCommie »

golergka wrote: post #520
deanCommie wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But more Palestenian lives are being lost. Purely from a numbers perspective if you put aside all other variables or blame, wouldn't that explain why one side is being criticized extra right now?

> Purely from a numbers perspective if you put aside all other variables Why would you put aside variables that are more important to casualty numbers? It's not a symmetrical situation. One side tries to increase casualty numbers on both sides of the conflict. The other side tries to decrease casualty numbers on both sides of the conflict. How would comparing casualty numbers in this situation tell you anything about…

First of all, Israel's goal is not to decrease casualties: https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/an-eye-for-a-tooth/

Second of all, even if I accept your premise, that "One side tries to increase casualty numbers on both sides of the conflict. The other side tries to decrease casualty numbers on both sides of the conflict.", then clearly it's not working, right?

Regardless of motivations, the outcome is Palestinian lives are being lost at a disproportionally higher rate than Israeli. That must be understood.

The standard Israeli response to this is "Hamas uses human shields." OK....so you know this, and are still shooting missiles. That means you are knowingly killing human shields.

OK, so maybe these human shields are protecting military equipment. Military equipment that is primitive and is completely neutralized by the Iron Dome.

The point I'm making is that even if you accept ALL of Israel's narratives about Hamas, about IDF's strategy (which have all sorts of other problems, such as when they get caught sniping civilians and medical personnel), you still wind up in a situation where you have a massive power differential and one side knowingly killing civilians.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#653

Post by recursive »

Robotbeat wrote: post #123
recursive wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, we could always ... That's a very bold claim with no support provided.

Should be feasible at very high altitudes where gravity is low.

On the other hand, I think it should not be feasible. How many kilograms of raw materials would be required? And at what altitude? I don't think there's enough propellant on earth to lift that much stuff.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#654

Post by Siira »

sequoia wrote: post #242
jcranmer wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably missing this listing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen... Where Gaza listed as its own country, it would be one of the densest, since it's basically a city and its urban sprawl and nothing more (like the other densest entries on the list). Of course, Gaza is itself arguably only part of Palestine, but the West Bank itself is pretty dense (see how high Palestine ranks on tha…

Looking at the country list, I see Israel is the #5 most densely populated country in the world. And Bnei Brak is the #5 most densely populated city, far more densely populated than Gaza. Bnei Brak was hit by rockets this week. Can you link me to some articles that refer to "Hamas firing rockets on Bnei Brak, one of the most densely populated cities in the world"? Or "on israel, one of the most densely populated coun…

Because most people are stupid, and this level of truth-bending will not be punished.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#655

Post by smileybarry »

nl wrote: post #400
sequoia wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the country list, I see Israel is the #5 most densely populated country in the world. And Bnei Brak is the #5 most densely populated city, far more densely populated than Gaza. Bnei Brak was hit by rockets this week. Can you link me to some articles that refer to "Hamas firing rockets on Bnei Brak, one of the most densely populated cities in the world"? Or "on israel, one of the most densely populated coun…

> And Bnei Brak is the #5 most densely populated city, far more densely populated than Gaza. This is only because the term "city" is used inconsistently around the world. Bnei Brak is part of the district of Tel Aviv, and most geographers would consider it part of the Tel Aviv-Yafo urban agglomerations[1]. The absolute size of an area puts a ceiling on the density - roads etc take up space, and the larger the area th…

Bnei Brak is part of the "Tel Aviv metropolitan area" but it's not part of the city of Tel Aviv, in the classic meaning: it has its own municipality, budgets, taxing system, etc. Counting it as the same city in any meaning would be wrong as the two have very different goals re: neighborhood design, density, commercial business focus, events, city services, etc.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#656

Post by moftz »

garaetjjte wrote: post #645
austinprete wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the GP as saying that SA GPS was originally made available as a result of the KAL007 crash, so presumably they didn’t have access to GPS at all on the flight? Then much later the SA restriction was removed, unrelated to a plane crash.

Though KAL007 deviated from course not because of some INS fault but just because autopilot didn't switch into INS following mode at all. Most likely crew just forgot to flip the switch, so GPS availability wouldn't have helped anyway.

Being out in the middle of the ocean with only INS supposedly keeping you on track is different than a GPS receiver that you can look at and see that you are not where you should be. Obviously the same thing would happen if no one was paying any mind to the cockpit instruments but at least a GPS receiver offers a solid reference to compare against. I really can't imagine how nerve wracking it would be trying to fly a plane without INS or GPS over an ocean. Your navigator would do their best to keep track of location but you'd probably end up way off course by the time you saw land.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#657

Post by vanusa »

plaidfuji wrote: post #342

This link title is extremely misleading to the point of being disingenuous and provocative. The title of the linked article is “Israel-Gaza: Why is the region blurry on Google Maps?”... because the entire Israel / Gaza / West Bank region is blurred in the exact same way. There is no preferential blurring of Palestinian areas. The clear answer is to prevent actors on both sides from using Google’s satellite imagery to…

This link title is extremely misleading to the point of being disingenuous and provocative. The title of the linked article is “Israel-Gaza: Why is the region blurry on Google Maps?”... because the entire Israel / Gaza / West Bank region is blurred in the exact same way. There is no preferential blurring of Palestinian areas.

My fault - it was a hasty decision to correct what was (perceived) as an error (based on what was perhaps a faulty, because hasty, reading of the title earlier). There's a lot going on in that region at the moment, and a lot of news to catch up on - that's where the haste came from.

The clear answer is to prevent actors on both sides from using Google’s satellite imagery to plan attacks against one another.

I somehow doubt that the motive is as clear as you suppose - but that's an entirely different matter.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#658

Post by vanusa »

betterunix2 wrote: post #363
jussij wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel can get all the detailed imagery it needs by just launching a reconnaissance aircraft or drone. So on that basis I would say it only stops the Palestinians from getting imagery of the area. Now considering the fact Palestine only has rockets and not missiles, I doubt that imagery is of much value to them. Call me cynical, but I suspect the more important reason to keep these images blurred might be to stop the…

I have learned to demand a very high standard of evidence for conspiracy theories, so...let's see the evidence that there is some conspiracy between Google and Israel to hide what is happening there. For that matter, I am not even sure what you think Israel is hiding -- Netanyahu is not at all shy about settlements, the IDF calls people up to tell them when a bomb is going to be dropped on their building, and there a…

I have learned to demand a very high standard of evidence for conspiracy theories,

Not a conspiracy theory at all - but rather a very sensible inference based on how state actors behave in the modern age.

I am not even sure what you think Israel is hiding

Blurry images make it much harder to assess, and verify the extent of the "unintended" casualties and property damage the current IDF campaign is causing (the term is in quotes because that's the language they rather gallingly use, as if they expect you and I to take it face value).

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#659

Post by golergka »

deanCommie wrote: post #652
golergka wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Purely from a numbers perspective if you put aside all other variables Why would you put aside variables that are more important to casualty numbers? It's not a symmetrical situation. One side tries to increase casualty numbers on both sides of the conflict. The other side tries to decrease casualty numbers on both sides of the conflict. How would comparing casualty numbers in this situation tell you anything about…

First of all, Israel's goal is not to decrease casualties: https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/an-eye-for-a-tooth/ Second of all, even if I accept your premise, that "One side tries to increase casualty numbers on both sides of the conflict. The other side tries to decrease casualty numbers on both sides of the conflict.", then clearly it's not working, right? Regardless of motivations, the outcome is Palestinian live…

> That means you are knowingly killing human shields.

That means that you decrease amount of your citizens that will end up dead.

> Military equipment that is primitive and is completely neutralized by the Iron Dome.

It's not. IDF and official Israelis obviously want everyone to believe that, but in reality, Iron Dome is not limitless, and can simply run out of ammunition, if Hamas launch sites are not counter-attacked. Which means a couple of thousand, or tens of thousands, of dead israelis in a few hours.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#660

Post by vanusa »

nashashmi wrote: post #305
slg wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- Yes, see how they took a position on the heart of this issue — the occupied territories themselves. They literally erased Palestine from the map. The US government doesn't recognize Palestine. Therefore displaying the occupied territories as a distinct state would be the more politicalized option compared with displaying them as they currently do. Either way, it just goes to show that the idea of a company being a…

The UN recognizes Palestine as do many other countries. The US was motivated not to recognize it because of the Israeli diaspora in America.

The US was motivated not to recognize it because of the Israeli diaspora in America.

There isn't much of an "Israeli diaspora" to speak of the the U.S. At most it makes up 2-3 percent of the Jewish descendant (or identified) population.

"Pro-Israel sentiment in Congress; more specifically, a sentiment favoring the current political status quo in Israel in regard to this particular issue" would be a better description of the proximate cause behind the current US policy, here.

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