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Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

blog.ethereum.org

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Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#781

Post by iso1631 »

pkdpic_y9k wrote: post #675
simias wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like cryptocurrencies achieved any of their goals so far anyway. If it's about facilitating pyramid schemes and creating a worldwide casino we might as well do it efficiently and without wasting insane amounts of resources. I'm personally very happy for PoS and hope that it'll be successful, I would be a lot less annoyed with cryptocurrency bullshit if it wasn't so wasteful. With proof-of-stakes it basically…

But like, what were cryptocurrency's goals again?

Make it easier to pay ransom demands when you have malware attack you. Used to have to have a pile of cash dumped in a given area, high risk for the collector. Far easier now.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#782

Post by andy_ppp »

leishman wrote: post #574

Proof of Stake is already how our current financial system works. The people with the most money make the decisions. Proof-of-Work is provably resistant to this, as evidenced by the 2017 blocksize debate where almost every large miner and bitcoin company wanted to change the protocol and it was fought off through grassroots efforts. A PoS currency will be controlled by a cabal of US financial institutions, and indire…

Can’t the people with most money buy the most computer power?

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#783

Post by crazypython »

whyrusleeping wrote: post #609
leishman wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that PoW is censorship resistant. Anybody can be a miner and existing miners cannot censor new miners. Performing new work is external to the network state. In PoS, existing stakers can prevent new stakers from registering. Very important distinction.

Its not really though, if the majority of PoW miners want to omit a certain miners blocks, they can. The protocol dictates that the chain created by the majority of mining power is the canonical one. In the event that a censored party can create a heavier chain (has >50% of the mining power) then the argument that its more censorship resistant holds, but on the PoS side, you would be betting that not a single partici…

> Its not really though, if the majority of PoW miners want to omit a certain miners blocks, they can.

Censored transactions can hire/pay miners who won't censor more transaction fees, to encourage them to include the transactions in a block. In other words, since transactors pay miners, transactors are customers of miners.

There is an open market competition– any miner censoring transactions will lose higher fees from people who send censored transactions.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#784

Post by dang »

All: this thread has over 1500 comments. To see all of it you need to click More at the bottom of the page, or like this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27194586&p=2

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27194586&p=3

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27194586&p=4

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(Posts like this will go away once we turn off pagination.)

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#785

Post by _9omd »

intotheabyss wrote: post #774
simias wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like cryptocurrencies achieved any of their goals so far anyway. If it's about facilitating pyramid schemes and creating a worldwide casino we might as well do it efficiently and without wasting insane amounts of resources. I'm personally very happy for PoS and hope that it'll be successful, I would be a lot less annoyed with cryptocurrency bullshit if it wasn't so wasteful. With proof-of-stakes it basically…

I can't believe this blatant denialism still exists on HN despite the fact that Ethereum has a thriving defi ecosystem. I can get a loan peer to peer today with my ETH in a stablecoin and yet you say there's no there there? Right....

HN crowd are like the flat earthers of the cryptosphere. When people's self esteem relies on them being contrarian don't expect them to actually put in the effort to learn about something.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#786

Post by svarog-run »

h4kor wrote: post #13

> Several teams of engineers are working overtime to ensure that The Merge arrives as soon as possible, and without compromising on safety. Overworking your engineers will most definitely lead to compromises. But good to see that Ethereum came to their senses and are serious about reducing the environmental impact they have.

Are you serious? This was proposed in the initial white paper. It's not something that suddenly came to mind. This stuff takes time

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#787

Post by crazypython »

incrudible wrote: post #616
colordrops wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Controlling the mining doesn't allow you to control much about how transactions work.

The network majority decides everything, including how transactions work, how many coins there are, what the block size is... The prospect that there's only ever going to be 21 million Bitcoin is ensured by nothing except majority opinion. It's not inconceivable that this will be relaxed in the future and Bitcoin will have a "Bitcoin Classic" fork where old rules are enforced. This could happen if, for instance, tran…

> The network majority decides everything, including how transactions work, how many coins there are, what the block size is...

The informal consensus of network full (non-mining) nodes enforce that. Full nodes are economic actors, such as people who sell goods and services, who fully verify the chain. They simply refuse accept inflated Bitcoin.

A Bitcoin full (non-mining) node only takes 5GB storage space and 128MB RAM to run.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#788

Post by DSingularity »

leishman wrote: post #574

Proof of Stake is already how our current financial system works. The people with the most money make the decisions. Proof-of-Work is provably resistant to this, as evidenced by the 2017 blocksize debate where almost every large miner and bitcoin company wanted to change the protocol and it was fought off through grassroots efforts. A PoS currency will be controlled by a cabal of US financial institutions, and indire…

No way dude. Our current system isn’t even close to PoS. Most obviously the federal reserve controls the monetary policy. Beyond that there is no “code is law” that we can all audit and fork if we find it inadequate. If ethereum centralized you can amend the protocol and fork the blockchain. Show me how you can do that with USD.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#789

Post by leishman »

andy_ppp wrote: post #782
leishman wrote: post #574

Proof of Stake is already how our current financial system works. The people with the most money make the decisions. Proof-of-Work is provably resistant to this, as evidenced by the 2017 blocksize debate where almost every large miner and bitcoin company wanted to change the protocol and it was fought off through grassroots efforts. A PoS currency will be controlled by a cabal of US financial institutions, and indire…

Can’t the people with most money buy the most computer power?

Yes, but they then need to maintain that edge by selling their Bitcoin and buying more computer power. They have constantly growing operating expenses and there is no force that centralizes control. PoS playbook is 1) get a stake, 2) set it and forget it.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#790

Post by [deleted] »

klyrs wrote: post #757
DickingAround wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? We totally got what we wanted; we have a deflationary currency we trade for goods and services. I'm 100% serious here; it's been working fine for quite a number of years. The fiat conversion is pretty noisy but BTC on average goes up in value in fiat terms at a fast pace. BTC is easy to turn it into stuff. No one has ever censored my transactions or asked for ID. Even if you buy something really exp…

Transaction fees were north of $50 a couple of weeks ago. Who's buying a pizza with that overhead? Genuinely asking, because I've a bridge to sell Before the edit window closes... 5 workarounds and counting. Are they interoperable, or is all this a thick layer of bullshit that users need to wade through to spend their "currency"? I see the plurality of "solutions" here indicative of a problem. Yes, you can fix anythi…

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