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Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

blog.ethereum.org

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Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#711

Post by fredfoobar »

RiverStone wrote: post #706
fredfoobar wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a whole book written about the history of this: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57429394-the-blocksize-w... "Roughly 90% of the hash power once threatened to change the rules of #Bitcoin believing the users didn’t matter in the decision. The users spun up 10s of thousands of full nodes & told them to go f*ck themselves." [1] [1] https://twitter.com/TheCryptoconomy/status/13940065488763084...

This is only relevant if people aren’t holding their coins on exchanges. Most users are and that concentration will increase as transaction fees are designed to do over the next decade.

I'm here to help that transition, It's already happening, many folks I know are transitioning to a hardware wallet. I've personally helped people onboard on to lightning and running their own node.

The whole process of running your own node has improved so much nowadays: getumbrel.com comes to mind.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#712

Post by reedjosh »

vmception wrote: post #652
nextaccountic wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Members earn 6% dividends for the last 100 years, and this was to entice them to join the system at all. Can you tell more about this? Specially the "and this was to entice them to join the system at all." part.

The Federal Reserve Act from 1913 incentivizes banks to join the Federal Reserve payments network. Let me update this to 2020s lingo: The Federal Reserve System is a decentralized autonomous organization (DAO) that pays its stakers 6% annually. It has operated for over 100 years flawlessly. The stakers gain access to a market leading depository and credit system, and have the ability to voice opinions on some variabl…

The federal reserve is

Decentralized?

> The Board of Governors' seven members guide the entire Fed system.

> The Board and FOMC make the Fed's decisions based on research.

https://www.thebalance.com/the-federal-reserve-system-and-it...

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#713

Post by TarasBob »

randomopining wrote: post #654
TarasBob wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great solution called zk-rollup (zero knowledge rollup) https://zksync.io/ It is just as secure as the base chain (unlike polygon) and has low fees and has been live for the past few months. This is a perfect solution to simple payments. The difference between optimistic rollups and zero knowledge rollups is that you can’t deploy arbitrary smart contracts to zk rollup, it only supports a limited set of use…

What coin does zk-rollup use? or just base Ethereum?

It can use any coin. You can send ETH or any token, including stable coins such as DAI or USDC.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#714

Post by IncRnd »

bagacrap wrote: post #333
IncRnd wrote: post #226

> Ethereum will use at least 99% less energy post merge I realize that is the text from the article, but what they really meant is "will use at most 99% less energy". The reduction will be at least 99%. The future value will be at most 1% of the current value.

I think that depends on whether you think "at least" modifies the "99%" or "99% less energy"

Many engineers get into these language conundrums by poorly stapling phrases and modifiers together.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#715

Post by Mc_Big_G »

simias wrote: post #650
leishman wrote: post #574

Proof of Stake is already how our current financial system works. The people with the most money make the decisions. Proof-of-Work is provably resistant to this, as evidenced by the 2017 blocksize debate where almost every large miner and bitcoin company wanted to change the protocol and it was fought off through grassroots efforts. A PoS currency will be controlled by a cabal of US financial institutions, and indire…

It's not like cryptocurrencies achieved any of their goals so far anyway. If it's about facilitating pyramid schemes and creating a worldwide casino we might as well do it efficiently and without wasting insane amounts of resources. I'm personally very happy for PoS and hope that it'll be successful, I would be a lot less annoyed with cryptocurrency bullshit if it wasn't so wasteful. With proof-of-stakes it basically…

You might think Bitcoin is not a good store of value, but a lot of people disagree with you. The energy "waste" argument is just virtual signaling at this point. It has been thoroughly debunked.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#716

Post by nmz »

missedthecue wrote: post #633
fredfoobar wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, nope. Consider the amount of energy wasted right now and also in similar "industries". https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/bitcoin-uses-less-than-...

The world financial and banking systems moves literal quadrillions of dollars around the world on an annual basis.

While true, this also gives jobs to millions of people, unlike crypto, which is comparatively less.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#717

Post by nathias »

pkdpic_y9k wrote: post #675
simias wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like cryptocurrencies achieved any of their goals so far anyway. If it's about facilitating pyramid schemes and creating a worldwide casino we might as well do it efficiently and without wasting insane amounts of resources. I'm personally very happy for PoS and hope that it'll be successful, I would be a lot less annoyed with cryptocurrency bullshit if it wasn't so wasteful. With proof-of-stakes it basically…

But like, what were cryptocurrency's goals again?

magic internet money

btw, it is a success.

If not for crypto two companies would have a global monopoly on online transactions and able to banish you from global economy on a whim

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#718

Post by jereees »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #710
simias wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like cryptocurrencies achieved any of their goals so far anyway. If it's about facilitating pyramid schemes and creating a worldwide casino we might as well do it efficiently and without wasting insane amounts of resources. I'm personally very happy for PoS and hope that it'll be successful, I would be a lot less annoyed with cryptocurrency bullshit if it wasn't so wasteful. With proof-of-stakes it basically…

Monero is closest to the original cryptocurrency dream: decentralized and private currency. It's most definitely not "bullshit".

How is that different from how Shiba Inu token works? Genuinely curious

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#719

Post by vbuterin »

leishman wrote: post #574

Proof of Stake is already how our current financial system works. The people with the most money make the decisions. Proof-of-Work is provably resistant to this, as evidenced by the 2017 blocksize debate where almost every large miner and bitcoin company wanted to change the protocol and it was fought off through grassroots efforts. A PoS currency will be controlled by a cabal of US financial institutions, and indire…

I think you're conflating _consensus_ and _governance_; the two are quite different. It's not PoW vs PoS that allows a chain to resist a coordinated attempt by elites to force a protocol change, it's users personally verifying the chain (and so automatically rejecting chains that violate the rules even if >51% of PoW/PoS nodes support those chains). So no, PoS is not "how our current financial system works". Our current financial system doesn't give people the ability to independently verify anything at all; it's even worse than the most centralized chains in that regard.

I would actually say PoS is more resistant to cabals and regulatory systems than PoW; PoW mining requires huge and visible capital investments and electricity consumption and it's incredibly easy for governments to detect and shut down miners in their own countries (not as true for GPU mining, but GPU-friendliness is difficult to sustain long term), whereas you can be a PoS validator with the most basic computer hardware from anywhere.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#720

Post by Spivak »

caconym_ wrote: post #698
leishman wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how everyone complains it's wasteful yet I see absolutely nobody complaining that they have some sort of electricity shortage because of Bitcoin miners.

Cruise ships are hideously wasteful, but I don't see anybody complaining that they have some sort of gas shortage because of cruise ships specifically . Gas prices are what they are, and consumers complain in very general terms because they don't have good visibility into the global oil markets. For all I know off the top of my head (where this comment is coming from), cruise ships aren't a significant driver of oil…

I mean on HN you really do see a very anti-cruise ship sentiment whenever the topic comes up. They are really really wasteful and worse than commercial ships since they pollute the very water people want to visit for its beauty.

I wouldn’t really be all that upset to see them banned but there’s no momentum for it. Crypto just happens to be really visible to a lot of people who see no personal benefit for its existence.

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