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Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

blog.ethereum.org

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Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people with money can buy mining factories and make decisions anyway.

See my comment to another in the thread. Existing stakers can prevent new people from staking. Existing miners can't do this in a PoW system

>See my comment to another in the thread. Existing stakers can prevent new people from staking

There is little to no evidence of this. Completely unsupported conspiracy theory.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#632
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes ETH gas price (transaction fee) have been very high, much higher than BTC lately... Not all cryptocurrency have such insane transaction fees though. NANO is a good example of a fee-less cryptocurrency (cf. https://nano.org/ )

Currently Bitcoin is $13 to Ethereum's $20. Ironically, that's because the value of value of Bitcoin has plummeted compared to Ehtereum. A month ago today, an Ethereum transaction would have cost $21 while a Bitcoin transaction would have cost $45.

Ethereum transaction cost is independent of ETH price.

Tx fee = gas * gas rate

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#633

I really wish the UN could get together and implement a global treaty on a revenue neutral carbon tax. The only reason energy is as cheap as it is right now is because we're not properly pricing in the externalities of environmental damage. This would immediately make unproductive energy use ( cough POW crypto cough) a lot less profitable, without the government having to come in and set prices and regs for every lit…

Yeah, nope. Consider the amount of energy wasted right now and also in similar "industries". https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/bitcoin-uses-less-than-...

The world financial and banking systems moves literal quadrillions of dollars around the world on an annual basis.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#634

Proof of Stake is already how our current financial system works. The people with the most money make the decisions. Proof-of-Work is provably resistant to this, as evidenced by the 2017 blocksize debate where almost every large miner and bitcoin company wanted to change the protocol and it was fought off through grassroots efforts. A PoS currency will be controlled by a cabal of US financial institutions, and indire…

Correct, the US Federal Reserve is a Proof of Stake system. Members earn 6% dividends for the last 100 years, and this was to entice them to join the system at all. Just pointing out that the idea of an omnipotent US government is a fairly new concept, and it must incentivize and entice people to join its payment network as opposed to other private ones. The private networks for final settlement are becoming more int…

> Members earn 6% dividends for the last 100 years, and this was to entice them to join the system at all.

Can you tell more about this? Specially the "and this was to entice them to join the system at all." part.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are a few of the reasons that come to mind as to why this transition has been taking us so long: * The design of the Beacon Chain is far more optimised than our initial designs for a PoS system * There are far more crypto-economic edge cases in a PoS system when compared to PoW * Software development is hard and time estimates are even harder * The use of a hybrid fork choice to balance safety and liveness trade…

And by far the most significant hindrance to moving away from proof of work is that there a number of significant players who have a large economic interest in PoW. Ethereum was promising this move many years ago, but it always was an extraordinarily low priority. There are a lot of people with perverse biases. Many of the comments enthusiastically defending Bitcoin are people who are sitting on BTC and have watched…

I disagree about the priority, they literally didn't know what they were doing or how to do it just yet. The security demands this community wants are and were completely science fiction as there is no proof of stake network that has met the goals they are aiming for, and they are simply much closer to reality now.

There was poor governance and management that debilitated their ability to function during the 3 year bear market. And they got their act together. In the mean time, more product market fit was made apparent and upgrades to the instruction set for arbitrary execution was done to the network and continues to this day.

The Ethereum network consists of many-to-many relationships for approval transactions for ERC20 tokens to interact with other smart contracts. This wasn't even foreseeable 18 months ago, and 18 months before that the ERC20 protocol wasn't even ratified.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#637

Proof of Stake is already how our current financial system works. The people with the most money make the decisions. Proof-of-Work is provably resistant to this, as evidenced by the 2017 blocksize debate where almost every large miner and bitcoin company wanted to change the protocol and it was fought off through grassroots efforts. A PoS currency will be controlled by a cabal of US financial institutions, and indire…

> Proof of Stake is already how our current financial system works. This is a naive viewpoint. Ethereum (as a currency) is an "M0" token, like cash or Fed deposits. There's a lot of handwaving about bonds and whatnot, but essentially the Fed can create new money simply by changing numbers on a balance sheet, and they can make that money into folding money and change which they can issue. The banking system is a compl…

> The equivalent in the real world is a bunch of aircraft carriers and planes and bombs and people with big guns, which gives the ability to say (credibly) that it is a crime to forge dollars no matter who you are or where you live.

Largely funded by forging dollars.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#638
post #585

Proof of Stake is already how our current financial system works. The people with the most money make the decisions. Proof-of-Work is provably resistant to this, as evidenced by the 2017 blocksize debate where almost every large miner and bitcoin company wanted to change the protocol and it was fought off through grassroots efforts. A PoS currency will be controlled by a cabal of US financial institutions, and indire…

I am not convinced that PoW is immune to those pressures or even resistant to it. The people with capital control the mining. At least the environmental problems are reduced with PoS

There's a whole book written about the history of this: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57429394-the-blocksize-w...

"Roughly 90% of the hash power once threatened to change the rules of #Bitcoin believing the users didn’t matter in the decision. The users spun up 10s of thousands of full nodes & told them to go f*ck themselves." [1]

[1] https://twitter.com/TheCryptoconomy/status/13940065488763084...

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#639

I understand that proof of stake requires an incredible amount of storage. This will make it a steep buy in. It will also raise production of SSDs and drives. How will this shift technically drive technology?

You may be thinking of proof-of-SPACE cryptocurrency, where the more hard drive space you dedicate, the more rewards you get.

Proof of STAKE is where you dedicate your cryptocurrency and are rewarded based on that. Since owning cryptocurrency doesn't take any physical resource, the only expenditure is keeping your staking node (a computer) online so that it can participate in validation.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#640
post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And by far the most significant hindrance to moving away from proof of work is that there a number of significant players who have a large economic interest in PoW. Ethereum was promising this move many years ago, but it always was an extraordinarily low priority. There are a lot of people with perverse biases. Many of the comments enthusiastically defending Bitcoin are people who are sitting on BTC and have watched…

> Does nothing for humanity Really? If that energy consumption problem wasn't there, what advantages does Ethereum have over Bitcoin? Would it even exist, since it offers many of the same features?

Ethereum natively supports smart contracts. Bitcoin doesn't support them natively; any attempt to add them has to be a separate layer on top.

That's why the past few years have seen a rise in fungible and non-fungible tokens (average merit of those aside for the sake of argument, since this is just answering the question "it offers many of the same features"), pretty much all of which are hosted on Ethereum or Ethereum code forks like Binance Smart Chain.

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