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Fierce Nerds

paulgraham.com

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Re: Fierce Nerds

#231

Post by dragonwriter »

Grustaf wrote: post #221
fallat wrote: post #210

Awww did someone get their feelings hurt? The more this Paul Graham person writes the more I realize they are just another regular person.

Why would you use "they" when talking about someone you know for sure is a man? Aren't you supposed to "respect peoples' pronouns"?

Knowing that someone is a man doesn’t mean knowing their pronouns; gender identity and pronoun preference are correlated but not 1:1 tied. It is somewhat inconvenient that the long traditional use of “they” for semantically singular cases where the correct pronoun is unknown has become blurred by “they/their/them” becoming a reasonably common preferred pronoun (especially among the nonbinary but also among some who identify as men or women), so its use to avoid the risk of an incorrect specific pronoun can be misread.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#232

Post by mistersquid »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #224

For years I've labeled this nonsense the Midas Delusion: people get dramatically unusual success with their startup, and then conclude that they somehow have superior insight into every banal topic they choose to opine on. They fail to properly understand the path dependency and sheer luck that played a roll in their success, nor that the biggest lesson their success should teach them is humility in the socratic igno…

> I am so very weary of this nonsense being taken seriously as sage advice.

Agreed.

In fact, in the featured article, the author makes reference to the hard science achievement of Watson and Crick's discovery of the double helix structure of DNA as follows.

> And moreover it's clear from the story that Crick and Watson's fierce nerdiness was integral to their success. Their independent-mindedness caused them to consider approaches that most others ignored, their overconfidence allowed them to work on problems they only half understood (they were literally described as "clowns" by one eminent insider), and their impatience and competitiveness got them to the answer ahead of two other groups that would otherwise have found it within the next year, if not the next several months.

Pointing to this as an example of fierceness producing contrarian success completely ignores the sheer amount of luck that contributed to the timing of Watson and Crick's discovery. Given a different roll of the experimental dice, Watson and Crick's method might have had temporary setbacks that resulted in their names being relegated to footnotes.

As luck and effort would have it, two of the most ornery scientists of the twentieth century will figure as pioneers in the annals of science history.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#233

Post by Grustaf »

dragonwriter wrote: post #231
Grustaf wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you use "they" when talking about someone you know for sure is a man? Aren't you supposed to "respect peoples' pronouns"?

Knowing that someone is a man doesn’t mean knowing their pronouns; gender identity and pronoun preference are correlated but not 1:1 tied. It is somewhat inconvenient that the long traditional use of “they” for semantically singular cases where the correct pronoun is unknown has become blurred by “they/their/them” becoming a reasonably common preferred pronoun (especially among the nonbinary but also among some who i…

Has PG, or anyone else, ever referred to him as anything but a "he"? Since 99.9% of men refer to themselves as men, that would seem like a useful default.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#234

Post by SyzygistSix »

riversflow wrote: post #187
HeyImAlex wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, born in 92 and his characterization of being nerdy and young seems super antiquated. “Nerdy” interests don’t make you a social pariah, they transcend groupings all together; the star quarterback plays dnd, the head cheerleader builds robots in her basement, the stigma on having unique or “nerdy” hobbies and interests is mostly gone. When I think of what PG is describing, it’s characterized by poor social skills…

Where are you (or GP) from? Im also ‘92. I grew up in California, but in a rural part of the state. Nerdy interests absolutely had a stigma. My high school didn’t even have a CS class, no academic decathlon team, and certainly no robotics club. It was the “best” school in my district, too. In challenging or AP classes you had essentially two groups, the jocks, who were trying to follow a college track, for which spor…

Things have changed a lot since then though. In a positive way.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#235

Post by whymauri »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #224

For years I've labeled this nonsense the Midas Delusion: people get dramatically unusual success with their startup, and then conclude that they somehow have superior insight into every banal topic they choose to opine on. They fail to properly understand the path dependency and sheer luck that played a roll in their success, nor that the biggest lesson their success should teach them is humility in the socratic igno…

I'm just so tired about people like PG and Scott Aaronson (who I otherwise respect) talking about nerds all the time. Why is everything framed in this black-and-white nerds vs. the world narrative? I'm just going to accept that this essay and others incessantly talking about "nerds vs jocks"(or the more modern Gen-Z framing, "chads vs virgins") just isn't for me.

Sorry for speaking out against The Messiah.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#237

Post by SyzygistSix »

shard wrote: post #95
helen___keller wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, there's a lot more to the "nerd" archetype than just technology. But, from my experience, it was not particularly edgy or differentiating to be passionate about video games, board games, card games, literature, obscure TV, fanfics, internet culture, etc.

Is the word "geek" no longer used for what you are describing? Although there a lot of overlap, I thought nerd referred to strong interests in academic subjects and geek referred to niche cultural subjects.

That is the problem with using labels rather than talking about what people are doing or what specific actions they are taking.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#238

Post by johnsillings »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #224

For years I've labeled this nonsense the Midas Delusion: people get dramatically unusual success with their startup, and then conclude that they somehow have superior insight into every banal topic they choose to opine on. They fail to properly understand the path dependency and sheer luck that played a roll in their success, nor that the biggest lesson their success should teach them is humility in the socratic igno…

I interpret this pretty differently, and PG seems pretty well positioned to make claims about something like this. I don't think this is so much about PG's journey as a founder.

PG has personally mentored hundreds, perhaps thousands of founders – whatever it is, a sufficiently huge sample size to identify some traits that correlate with founder success and happiness.

Sure, the truth is probably more nebulous than presented here, but archetypes can be useful.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#239

Post by gregwebs »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #224

For years I've labeled this nonsense the Midas Delusion: people get dramatically unusual success with their startup, and then conclude that they somehow have superior insight into every banal topic they choose to opine on. They fail to properly understand the path dependency and sheer luck that played a roll in their success, nor that the biggest lesson their success should teach them is humility in the socratic igno…

I agree that even PG at times falls prey to the Midas Delusion. However, I don't understand this attack on his technical competence given PG's history of starting starting a successful startup, introducing modern spam filtering, and deep-diving into lisp.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#240

Post by logicslave »

"If you do choose the ambitious route, you'll have a tailwind behind you. There has never been a better time to be a nerd. In the past century we've seen a continuous transfer of power from dealmakers to technicians — from the charismatic to the competent — and I don't see anything on the horizon that will end it. At least not till the nerds end it themselves by bringing about the singularity."
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