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Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

blog.ethereum.org

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Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#251

Post by gpm »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #201
DCKing wrote: post #133

Good. Very good. This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies. Don't ban their trade because they make poor financial products, either because of rampant fraud or criminal activity. That's a different argument and requires different approaches. Ban their trade because global society shouldn't accept rampant incentives to l…

So burning electricity on running a cryptocurrency is not right, but burning electricity on running servers for Facebook or user tracking is all right? If that's the case, who's the arbiter of what's "too much" power for a use case? If that's not the case, how do you propose to enforce that all use cases use less electricity, and how do you punish those who use too much?

I think the proposal here is very simple. Pass a law against proof of work crypto currencies, don't let perfect be the enemy of good, and deal with the next big waste of power when it comes about by passing a law about it.

Don't address of any the things that you are proposing need addressing, because they don't need to be addressed in the same law, or really addressed right now at all.

The law doesn't need to try and anticipate the actions that occur in the future, we will still have a legislature in the future capable of addressing the future when it comes about. The law needs to address the actions of today.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#252

Post by txsoftwaredev »

X6S1x6Okd1st wrote: post #169
DCKing wrote: post #133

Good. Very good. This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies. Don't ban their trade because they make poor financial products, either because of rampant fraud or criminal activity. That's a different argument and requires different approaches. Ban their trade because global society shouldn't accept rampant incentives to l…

If we are passing radical legislation that cuts across borders I'd much rather see a carbon/greenhouse gas tax.

We should impose a large tax on data centers for their massive energy usage to power such "valuable" resources like Twitter, Instagram and Facebook.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#253

Post by hannofcart »

DCKing wrote: post #133

Good. Very good. This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies. Don't ban their trade because they make poor financial products, either because of rampant fraud or criminal activity. That's a different argument and requires different approaches. Ban their trade because global society shouldn't accept rampant incentives to l…

That's a slippery slope of an argument.

If the government starts arbitrating on what is a judicious use of energy on environmental grounds, then you're a short step away from banning, say, beef production.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#254

Post by hunter2_ »

LeftTriangle wrote: post #208
DCKing wrote: post #133

Good. Very good. This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies. Don't ban their trade because they make poor financial products, either because of rampant fraud or criminal activity. That's a different argument and requires different approaches. Ban their trade because global society shouldn't accept rampant incentives to l…

You people obsessed with reducing humanity’s energy usage are so tiresome. Anyone who actually cares about the well-being of humanity should be focused on increasing the amount of energy available. I want to climb the kardashev scale, not live in an eco-pod and eat bug burgers so I can scrounge every last joule.

We all want luxury, but at some point the changes that come from energy usage will be very unluxurious, no?

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#255

Post by Spooky23 »

beowulfey wrote: post #191
satyrnein wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want less carbon burned, tax carbon. I'm skeptical of cryptocurrency, but the idea that regulators, already captured by banks, should aggressively ban new financial products that may one day threaten the incumbents makes me wary.

A carbon tax would filter down to the electricity consumer cost. I dont know about you, but I dont want to pay more for electricity so other people can burn electricity for virtual money. Unless you are suggesting taxing crypto itself, in which case… sure!

Why is your electricity use posting on HN more virtuous than making Bitcoin?

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#256

Post by iabacu »

iabacu wrote: post #223
DCKing wrote: post #133

Good. Very good. This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies. Don't ban their trade because they make poor financial products, either because of rampant fraud or criminal activity. That's a different argument and requires different approaches. Ban their trade because global society shouldn't accept rampant incentives to l…

> This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof of work cryptocurrencies. That's not only radical, but a grotesque knee jerk reaction. If you think about renewable energy, there's a problem of mismatched production with consumption and transmission. This causes wasted energy (or energy that is very low value), which makes renewable energy projects…

By the way.

If one thinks about tracking the carbon cost of a mined BTC (based on the energy source used to mine it) such that a carbon tax can be accurately exacted, the usage of blockchain to track carbon offsets and cost is a pretty obvious thing that comes to mind.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#257

Post by est31 »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #201
DCKing wrote: post #133

Good. Very good. This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies. Don't ban their trade because they make poor financial products, either because of rampant fraud or criminal activity. That's a different argument and requires different approaches. Ban their trade because global society shouldn't accept rampant incentives to l…

So burning electricity on running a cryptocurrency is not right, but burning electricity on running servers for Facebook or user tracking is all right? If that's the case, who's the arbiter of what's "too much" power for a use case? If that's not the case, how do you propose to enforce that all use cases use less electricity, and how do you punish those who use too much?

IDK in Germany it's forbidden per § 30 StVO to drive around senselessly inside settlements. You are still allowed to drive around, even if the reasons are stupid. But if they are too stupid, police can fine you. There is a youtuber in Berlin who specializes in driving around for hours and he's been stopped by police already. The original video has been made private [0], but a raw version of it still exists [1].

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLozreFvl24

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LfccX_pBHM

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#258

Post by micropresident »

barrkel wrote: post #222
bko wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the government wants to put a higher price on energy or carbon, it should do so. But it should not be the arbiter of what's a worthy use of energy expenditure. I could see a lot of people make the argument the production of a lot of energy intensive goods is not worth-while.

Government is made out of people. If the people don't want the economy oriented around energy being put into finding hashes, they have the right to vote.

Obviously the people want to put energy towards finding hashes or they wouldn't be doing it. What you're advocating for is a minority of people who actually vote to influence the government to send people with guns to stop the actions of people who are voting with their labor.

There will come a time when people like you -- who play God over others -- are ousted from society.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#259

Post by bcrosby95 »

throwkeep wrote: post #97
h4kor wrote: post #13

> Several teams of engineers are working overtime to ensure that The Merge arrives as soon as possible, and without compromising on safety. Overworking your engineers will most definitely lead to compromises. But good to see that Ethereum came to their senses and are serious about reducing the environmental impact they have.

Overtime != overwork. You've probably programmed something, at some point, where you were excited to work on it from morning to night? Where you lose track of hours, forget to eat meals and completely in the zone? That could easily be the case with these engineers, working on such a historical project and consequential update.

I have. My whole team at once? Not really.

Unless management is really vigilant, when people are working overtime everyone on the team feels pressure to do the same.

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