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Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

blog.ethereum.org

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Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#241
post #133

Good. Very good. This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies. Don't ban their trade because they make poor financial products, either because of rampant fraud or criminal activity. That's a different argument and requires different approaches. Ban their trade because global society shouldn't accept rampant incentives to l…

i'd prefer you ban cars

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#242
post #133

Good. Very good. This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies. Don't ban their trade because they make poor financial products, either because of rampant fraud or criminal activity. That's a different argument and requires different approaches. Ban their trade because global society shouldn't accept rampant incentives to l…

This is one of those "Freakonomics" type ideas. On the surface this sounds like bitcoin's PoW use will simply stop. It's actually the entire opposite. When governments ban it, they go after sizeable, identifiable organizations running these operations, that is their only choice. These operations are optimized in their energy usage, because it's only in their interest to reduce their consumption relative to the value…

I think you're probably right. Money always finds a way.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#243

I wonder how this will impact mining? Will GPUs suddenly flood the market as it becomes much less profitable to mine? God I hope so the GPU shortages have been crazy.

I've be lurking heavily in the crypto-mining communities for a few weeks now. Most are saying they'll just "move to a new coin" which is basically all they CAN do, unless they cash out early and sell their hardware. Nvidia is releasing* "LHR" (low hash rate) cards to give gamers some relief (assuming they can't be jailbroken). * https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2021/05/18/lhr/

Some of these earlier cards already have been jailbroken. Ultimately, it's a question of whether it makes sense for miners to sponsor a cracking effort vs the cost of buying the more expensive cards outright.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#244
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the government wants to put a higher price on energy or carbon, it should do so. But it should not be the arbiter of what's a worthy use of energy expenditure. I could see a lot of people make the argument the production of a lot of energy intensive goods is not worth-while.

Government is made out of people. If the people don't want the economy oriented around energy being put into finding hashes, they have the right to vote.

People are made out of opinions. If they don't like the way others are voting, they have the right to convince others of theirs.

Which is to say, discussing on HN is a valid way to contribute your opinion to society. Voting is not your only voice.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#245
post #133

Good. Very good. This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies. Don't ban their trade because they make poor financial products, either because of rampant fraud or criminal activity. That's a different argument and requires different approaches. Ban their trade because global society shouldn't accept rampant incentives to l…

Yeah man, Government should point guns at people who don't comply with your ideology! Let's advocate violence against people because they do stuff we don't like!

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#246
post #133

Good. Very good. This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies. Don't ban their trade because they make poor financial products, either because of rampant fraud or criminal activity. That's a different argument and requires different approaches. Ban their trade because global society shouldn't accept rampant incentives to l…

I’m sure the recent, existential hand-wringing over Bitcoin energy consumption has nothing at all to do with upcoming ethereum changes.

It’s all bullshit and hype — the crypto equivalent of the Chick-Fil-A cows saying “eat more chicken”.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#248
The "Cantillion Effect"

https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/the-cantillion-effect

Ethereum is already a system where those who are closest to the money printers benefit the most. At first it was oligarchic just because of its pre-mine and air drops, but PoS just takes that to a new level. You get paid to be rich.

The reason this uses so much less energy is because it's so much closer to a centralized fiat currency. The only value implied by PoS is that some rich people are backing it... a lot like the dollar.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#249
post #133

Good. Very good. This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies. Don't ban their trade because they make poor financial products, either because of rampant fraud or criminal activity. That's a different argument and requires different approaches. Ban their trade because global society shouldn't accept rampant incentives to l…

So burning electricity on running a cryptocurrency is not right, but burning electricity on running servers for Facebook or user tracking is all right? If that's the case, who's the arbiter of what's "too much" power for a use case? If that's not the case, how do you propose to enforce that all use cases use less electricity, and how do you punish those who use too much?

If Statistia is to be believed, Facebook consumes 22x less energy than Bitcoin. 5 vs 110 Terawatt hours.

And Bitcoin is hardly used for any transactions, and its energy usage will increase linearly with BTC price.

(If someone has a direct source that would be great. Statista is not good)

Update: seems the FB figure is correct, for 2019: https://sustainability.fb.com/report-pages/renewable-energy/

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#250
post #133

Good. Very good. This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies. Don't ban their trade because they make poor financial products, either because of rampant fraud or criminal activity. That's a different argument and requires different approaches. Ban their trade because global society shouldn't accept rampant incentives to l…

You people obsessed with reducing humanity’s energy usage are so tiresome. Anyone who actually cares about the well-being of humanity should be focused on increasing the amount of energy available. I want to climb the kardashev scale, not live in an eco-pod and eat bug burgers so I can scrounge every last joule.

What you want and the realities of our current world are two very, very different things.
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