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Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

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Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#231

Post by labcomputer »

Black101 wrote: post #224
bdamm wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While technically true, the conversion is inefficient. It takes a lot of power to extract H2 from H2O. You could just use that power directly. The problem with electrics in -50 is keeping them plugged in when not in use. -50 is very extreme though, you’re talking far north or Edmonton.

But it is much faster to fill-up an hydrogen tank then it is to charge a battery.

Really? It takes me about 5 seconds to charge my car every day, and I don't even need to leave my house to do it.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#232

Post by jacquesm »

HPsquared wrote: post #207
simcop2387 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big problem with hydrogen is just how small it is. It likes to leach through stuff hold just about everything else. You very well might need custom hoses, custom seals, and custom materials for the castings just to safely store it at 10kpsi. It'll leak through solid steel containers that will otherwise hold helium fine.

Even worse than simply leaking, hydrogen can diffuse into the crystal structure of metals and cause havoc with the material properties. It's definitely not as friendly as hydraulic oil.

Exactly. This is a major problem with anything hydrogen related, especially if it has an expected lifespan of a decade+.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#233

Post by mminer237 »

danogentili wrote: post #188
JPKab wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key to a hydrogen economy will rely on creation of hydrogen in locations with extremely abundant electricity like Iceland. The next step is shipping it like it's LNG. Not a small order.

> The key to a hydrogen economy will rely on wasting energy on creation of hydrogen in locations with extremely abundant electricity. Honestly, this sounds just as bad as setting up bitcoin mines in places with high rates of renewables, to avoid directly throwing tons of CO2 in the atmosphere. Even if you have loads of clean energy, that's no reason to waste it when there are more efficient ways of using it (lithium…

I don't think you can feasibly ship all your electric batteries to be charged up in Iceland.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#234

Post by jacquesm »

baybal2 wrote: post #192
goodpoint wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than a gasoline bomb, hopefully. Gasoline is more dangerous.

Few kg of hydrogen are surely more dangerous than 50 kg of gasoline.

The total amount isn't as much a problem as is the activation energy. Hydrogen will explode when you look at it cross eyed. For gasoline you will have to do some work.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#236

Post by labcomputer »

darksaints wrote: post #217
bdamm wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While technically true, the conversion is inefficient. It takes a lot of power to extract H2 from H2O. You could just use that power directly. The problem with electrics in -50 is keeping them plugged in when not in use. -50 is very extreme though, you’re talking far north or Edmonton.

The conversion using current SOEC technology isn't particularly inefficient. 88% efficient when using LHV values, 105% efficient when using HHV. http://www.helmeth.eu/index.php/technologies/high-temperatur...

That analysis ignores the heat used to raise the reactant (water) temperature to 800C.

On its face, the claim doesn't make much sense anyway. If you could convert water to 2 H2 + O2 at zero energy cost, you could make a perpetual motion machine by taking advantage of the exothermic reaction 2 H2 + O2 -> 2 H2O.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#237

Post by toomuchtodo »

xiphias2 wrote: post #209
SigmundA wrote: post #117

This is at 66.9 km/h (40 mph) in order to greatly increase its range due to lower drag compared to normal highway speeds. As a comparison a Tesla Model 3 got 975km (606 miles) at 40 km/h (25 mph) [1]. I can't seem to find any range tests at a similar speed as the Nexo. I found an EPA dyno test for the Model 3 at 77 km/h (48mph) for 708 km (440 miles). The Nexo and Model 3 have similar dimension and weight and price,…

Hydrogen makes much more sense for container ships, where electric batteries can't be made practical, but hydrogen storage can be scaled easily.

Ammonia is a better fit for marine applications, as it doesn't require high pressure or cryo storage. It can also be produced using renewable energy, and is cheaper to transport.

One of the largest producers in the world (CF Industries in Louisiana) has committed to producing it using offshore wind, and renewables in general (and their terminals are located in geographic areas where there is already high penetration of renewables on the local grid).

https://www.cfindustries.com/globalassets/cf-industries/medi...

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#238

Post by adrianN »

goodpoint wrote: post #181
baybal2 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people would be ready to drive a hydrogen bomb?

More than a gasoline bomb, hopefully. Gasoline is more dangerous.

I'm relatively sure that a tank of hydrogen at ridiculous pressure makes a nicer fireball than a tank of gas at no pressure.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#239

Post by wiz21c »

xiphias2 wrote: post #209
SigmundA wrote: post #117

This is at 66.9 km/h (40 mph) in order to greatly increase its range due to lower drag compared to normal highway speeds. As a comparison a Tesla Model 3 got 975km (606 miles) at 40 km/h (25 mph) [1]. I can't seem to find any range tests at a similar speed as the Nexo. I found an EPA dyno test for the Model 3 at 77 km/h (48mph) for 708 km (440 miles). The Nexo and Model 3 have similar dimension and weight and price,…

Hydrogen makes much more sense for container ships, where electric batteries can't be made practical, but hydrogen storage can be scaled easily.

And if the ship sinks I guess hydrogen pollutes less than oil ?

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#240

Post by darksaints »

labcomputer wrote: post #236
darksaints wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conversion using current SOEC technology isn't particularly inefficient. 88% efficient when using LHV values, 105% efficient when using HHV. http://www.helmeth.eu/index.php/technologies/high-temperatur...

That analysis ignores the heat used to raise the reactant (water) temperature to 800C. On its face, the claim doesn't make much sense anyway. If you could convert water to 2 H2 + O2 at zero energy cost, you could make a perpetual motion machine by taking advantage of the exothermic reaction 2 H2 + O2 -> 2 H2O.

That's the difference between LHV and HHV. It is possible to exceed 100% efficiency when using HHV because it is an inherently more conservative convention for energy content due to practical concerns. LHV, by contrast, is bounded by the laws of physics.
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