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Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

blog.ethereum.org

141–150 of 1001 posts

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#141
post #75

Maybe this is a good time and place to ask - let's say I want to buy something using Ethereum. Is it correct that when I look at, say, https://ycharts.com/indicators/ethereum_average_transaction_... , you have to pay USD 20 just as payment fees? I wrote off Bitcoin as a payment mechanism a long time ago because of this (although it seems BTC tx costs are now lower than ETH?), is this the direction tx costs for all cr…

No, there are coins like Bitcoin Cash that have ridiculously low fees and are accepted in tons of physical stores across the world.

BTC refuses to scale, Lightning is permanently broken.

Ethereum will reduce the fees with sharing, but that will take time.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#142

What are the attack vectors on PoS. With PoW you need 51% of the mining power to take over the system, which is very labor intensive to set up. With PoS could you take over all coins by buying 51% of the existing coins? So if the market cap of ETH is 200BB spend 100BB to double your money?

You don't have to buy them, you can borrow them. This opens up a certain type of attack where you promise to pay interest to get control of the stake. If you're running a stake pool, you can pay interest on top of the stake reward. It's possible to run a staking yield farm, where you pay interest in a different cryptocurrency that you can mint yourself.

These kinds of off-network incentives can disrupt the reward system. It's even possible to incentivize a lot of people to collude in a double spend attack if the rewards can be distributed to the participants.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#143
post #133

Good. Very good. This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies. Don't ban their trade because they make poor financial products, either because of rampant fraud or criminal activity. That's a different argument and requires different approaches. Ban their trade because global society shouldn't accept rampant incentives to l…

way to devise a very specific way to kill the gravy train cryptobros have been riding on for so long

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#144
post #133

Good. Very good. This may be a radical take, but I think nations should introduce some unprecedented legislation: ban trade of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies. Don't ban their trade because they make poor financial products, either because of rampant fraud or criminal activity. That's a different argument and requires different approaches. Ban their trade because global society shouldn't accept rampant incentives to l…

Would Ethereum be able to make the switch to PoS if it had never used PoW originally? How would they ensure a good distribution of ownership?

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#145
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ETH is competing against USD, not against BTC. Bitcoin is competing against gold. If true, this means that every argument comparing BTC to fiat is bullshit. Given that most arguments I see in favor of BTC compare it to fiat, this doesn’t speak well to the understanding of those who hold it. Given that BTC’s value is predicated purely on the beliefs of those who hold it, a systematic misunderstanding like this sugge…

To be clear, bitcoin is of course also competing against USD. But this is neither a fair nor an interesting competition. Life span of fiat currencies is usually decades.

> ETH is competing against USD, not against BTC. Bitcoin is competing against gold.

> To be clear, bitcoin is of course also competing against USD

These can’t both be true.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current system is no different, as the hash power is related to how many computers you can afford to buy. This doesn't fix the problem but it does fix the environmental impact.

No, it is very different because in practice the pools and exchanges are totally separate entities. With PoS the biggest holders will be exchanges and therefore exchanges will control the cryptocurrency. With PoS there will be clearly less decentralization compared to PoW.

Also, pools are not miners.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#148
post #90
post #75

Maybe this is a good time and place to ask - let's say I want to buy something using Ethereum. Is it correct that when I look at, say, https://ycharts.com/indicators/ethereum_average_transaction_... , you have to pay USD 20 just as payment fees? I wrote off Bitcoin as a payment mechanism a long time ago because of this (although it seems BTC tx costs are now lower than ETH?), is this the direction tx costs for all cr…

Yes ETH gas price (transaction fee) have been very high, much higher than BTC lately... Not all cryptocurrency have such insane transaction fees though. NANO is a good example of a fee-less cryptocurrency (cf. https://nano.org/ )

Currently Bitcoin is $13 to Ethereum's $20.

Ironically, that's because the value of value of Bitcoin has plummeted compared to Ehtereum. A month ago today, an Ethereum transaction would have cost $21 while a Bitcoin transaction would have cost $45.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#149
post #8
post #2

So with PoS, we recreate a system where a few rich pool have decision over the network. Can someone enlighten me on how this is different from the current fiat system?

While I myself stay with Bitcoin, Ethereum still has lots of advantages compared to the fiat system: it's still open source, and people can still validate the rules (although that full validation is extremely hard). Also the current fiat system is debt based, which means that the vast majority of money is printed by banks and the money printing power is at the highest ranking sales person, and hidden.

Banks will still loan even if fiat doesn't exist.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#150
post #75

Maybe this is a good time and place to ask - let's say I want to buy something using Ethereum. Is it correct that when I look at, say, https://ycharts.com/indicators/ethereum_average_transaction_... , you have to pay USD 20 just as payment fees? I wrote off Bitcoin as a payment mechanism a long time ago because of this (although it seems BTC tx costs are now lower than ETH?), is this the direction tx costs for all cr…

For a basic transfer, it's probably best to use a gas tracker like: https://etherscan.io/gastracker to check on costs. It's about $6-8 at the moment. The average tx cost is going skew much higher because of DeFi transactions. Uniswap V3 is scheduled to deploy on Optimism potentially in a few weeks which may help alleviate fee pressure (although as you can see from the linked gas tracker, Uniswap V2 is still consuming a large portion of txs). The bet is that a combination of L1 and L2 improvements will bring transaction fees back to reasonable levels in the next year or so. If it doesn't, there are a host of new competitors like Algorand or Solana that are looking to supplant Ethereum (and do currently provide much higher transaction throughput and lower costs).

In general, fees go up as the token price goes up since fees are usually charged as a function of transaction size or complexity, and also fees rise as a protocol hits its tx limits, but not always. Nano is an interesting cryptocurrency that is fee-less (although they just had to roll out an emergency update to improve spam resistance), so it's possible to design a fee-less system, but it's certainly even more experimental atm.

There are, however a number of cryptos that currently (and by intent) have <$0.01 (sometimes significantly less) fees. This includes (just going down by market cap): Ripple, Bitcoin Cash, Stellar, or Dash. For transactions, even though fees are a bit higher (about $0.06), I like Monero since it's one of the most private and widely used cryptocurrencies out there, and it's fees have actually significantly decreased due to technical improvements in transaction efficiency, dynamic blocksize, and an algorithm that can actually reduce fees as volume increases.

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