Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge • Hacker News Board

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#111

Post by X6S1x6Okd1st » Tue, May 18, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

TechBro8615 wrote: post #84

I was fairly into the space in 2014-2016 but stopped paying attention the last few years. It seems like lots of theorized applications actually exist and have a proof-of-concept now. If I’m building a marketplace business in 2021, where I want to be “crypto-first” instead of relying on PayPal and Stripe Connect, where do I start? The marketplace sells access to resources with an off-chain ACL system. It facilitates t…

Polygon & "optimistic roll-ups" are generally referred to as L2. In general this part of the etherum ecosystem is just starting up and the only one that has seen much adoption so far is Polygon (which did 4M tx yesterday & still has low fees).

Using an L2 system will mean that your user will need to be using that specific L2 system as well, but the UX doesn't seem so bad (at least for ETH -> polygon, and for the cryptocurrecny space so far).

ETH 2.0 will reduce gas fees somewhat on the mainchain, but it's fairly obvious that there's huge demand, the sharding that ETH 2.0 will do is create 1 shard for execution & 63 for data only. Most L2 systems will mostly use the data shards, so we appear to be heading towards an L2 future.

In short if I were building a company in the space I'd be looking at deploying both on the mainchain (L1) and on a L2 system, but prioritize the L2 system. Unfortunately we may end up in a world where there are dozens or more L2 systems and either the users or the companies have to pay the cost to hop between them.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#112

Post by logimame » Tue, May 18, 2021, 3:10 PM UTC

Geee wrote: post #98

Polygator wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The justification is that contrarily to PoW, where there are economies of scale on computing power, PoS power scales linearly with your stake. Mining has been concentrated in the hands of a few gigantic mining pools for a while, and PoS will actually make Ethereum more democratic. Again, this is based on documentation, there might be unforeseen consequences

There are no economies of scale in PoW. At least for longer term. Cost of energy rises locally the more you use it. Cheap energy is somewhat equally distributed around the globe, which ensures geographical decentralization.

Energy prices aren't really distributed equally around the world:

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/electricity_prices/

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#113

Post by TheCapn » Tue, May 18, 2021, 3:10 PM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #75

Maybe this is a good time and place to ask - let's say I want to buy something using Ethereum. Is it correct that when I look at, say, https://ycharts.com/indicators/ethereum_average_transaction_... , you have to pay USD 20 just as payment fees? I wrote off Bitcoin as a payment mechanism a long time ago because of this (although it seems BTC tx costs are now lower than ETH?), is this the direction tx costs for all cr…

Just to put an anecdote to the question, I made a withdrawal from my mining pool to my wallet 2 days ago and for an nearly instant transaction it cost me ~$2USD. Higher than I'd want in any currency, but it definitely wasn't $20USD

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#114

Post by bhandziuk » Tue, May 18, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

h4kor wrote: post #13

> Several teams of engineers are working overtime to ensure that The Merge arrives as soon as possible, and without compromising on safety. Overworking your engineers will most definitely lead to compromises. But good to see that Ethereum came to their senses and are serious about reducing the environmental impact they have.

I think they're being hyperbolic. "we're working really hard to make it happen"

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#115

Post by pteraspidomorph » Tue, May 18, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

josefresco wrote: post #72

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #63

I wonder how this will impact mining? Will GPUs suddenly flood the market as it becomes much less profitable to mine? God I hope so the GPU shortages have been crazy.

I've be lurking heavily in the crypto-mining communities for a few weeks now. Most are saying they'll just "move to a new coin" which is basically all they CAN do, unless they cash out early and sell their hardware. Nvidia is releasing* "LHR" (low hash rate) cards to give gamers some relief (assuming they can't be jailbroken). * https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2021/05/18/lhr/

Unfortunately mining is only a small part of why GPUs have been so expensive, but hopefully this will contribute to making them cheaper in the long term. If they don't mess up again.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#116

Post by yokem55 » Tue, May 18, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

pinkybanana wrote: post #18

sergioisidoro wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current system is no different, as the hash power is related to how many computers you can afford to buy. This doesn't fix the problem but it does fix the environmental impact.

No, it is very different because in practice the pools and exchanges are totally separate entities. With PoS the biggest holders will be exchanges and therefore exchanges will control the cryptocurrency. With PoS there will be clearly less decentralization compared to PoW.

Except the barrier for entry on building a stake pooling operation is relatively low, so there will be a substantial amount of competition in the space over time. Coinbase for instance is taking a 25% commission on the staking earnings, so anyone who can come in under that, or offer options in terms of liquidity on the staked funds that can be reinvested, will attract a good amount of the share of stakes. There is even a fully decentralized pooling system that is nearing release.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#117

Post by briefcomment » Tue, May 18, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

AAA_Rating wrote: post #9

Its price will also tumble 99% . People motives to get into crypto are clear. They want to subtract themselves from government policy of constantly printing money. BTC takes care of that and it's a 14 years brand which is extremely politically expensive to make illegal On the other hand people are perfectly satisfied with their experience on Youtube, Amazon, Google, Facebook, Ebay, JPMorgan etc. which are the entitie…

I'd like to see both if possible. Actually I would like to see BCH replace USD (or a bigger block BTC).

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#118

Post by throwaway-8c93 » Tue, May 18, 2021, 3:14 PM UTC

wbc wrote: post #101

TechBro8615 wrote: post #84

I was fairly into the space in 2014-2016 but stopped paying attention the last few years. It seems like lots of theorized applications actually exist and have a proof-of-concept now. If I’m building a marketplace business in 2021, where I want to be “crypto-first” instead of relying on PayPal and Stripe Connect, where do I start? The marketplace sells access to resources with an off-chain ACL system. It facilitates t…

Check out Solana if you want lower fees

Low fees - but only once you're in the crypto ecosystem.

If you're after dollars or euros, the on-ramp and off-ramp at exchanges adds a comparable, if not higher layer of fees than existing payment mechanisms, kind of defeating the whole purpose.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#119

Post by ArkanExplorer » Tue, May 18, 2021, 3:14 PM UTC

focom wrote: post #2

So with PoS, we recreate a system where a few rich pool have decision over the network. Can someone enlighten me on how this is different from the current fiat system?

Whenever you have a system where it costs several dollars to carry out a transaction, it will always be inferior to fiat.

We could bring microtransactions to the web, and replace a lot of advertising, if transaction costs were zero.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#120

Post by jerf » Tue, May 18, 2021, 3:14 PM UTC

michael_vo wrote: post #32

What are the attack vectors on PoS. With PoW you need 51% of the mining power to take over the system, which is very labor intensive to set up. With PoS could you take over all coins by buying 51% of the existing coins? So if the market cap of ETH is 200BB spend 100BB to double your money?

In addition to the replies, bear in mind that market cap is a bit of a fiction. If you go on a crazy buying spree to take over the network, you'll raise the price of each token in the price due to your own rising demand. It would be a lot more than $100B.