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Fierce Nerds

paulgraham.com

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Re: Fierce Nerds

#111

Post by dugmartin »

HeyImAlex wrote: post #78
helen___keller wrote: post #21

I enjoy reading Paul Graham's musings on nerds / nerdiness, but I can't help but have difficulty relating. Maybe it's a generational thing (born in '92), but Graham often seems to paint a picture of nerds similar to what you might see in movies and TV shows depicting the 80s, like the kids in Stranger Things. Even this article, while I can certainly conjure which of my friends growing up were the "fierce nerd", it st…

Same, born in 92 and his characterization of being nerdy and young seems super antiquated. “Nerdy” interests don’t make you a social pariah, they transcend groupings all together; the star quarterback plays dnd, the head cheerleader builds robots in her basement, the stigma on having unique or “nerdy” hobbies and interests is mostly gone. When I think of what PG is describing, it’s characterized by poor social skills…

I can tell you as someone that graduated college in 92 that being nerdy as a kid in the 70s/80s it was very different from that, at least in my area of the world (Midwest USA).

If you want a not very distorted glimpse of what it was like watch the movie, "Revenge of the Nerds".

Re: Fierce Nerds

#112

Post by stephc_int13 »

These days, being a nerd or being "on the spectrum" is mostly synonymous.

And now we have this attempt at describing the properties of a sub-category of "Fierce Nerds".

In my opinion, this is a poor model, not super useful and with many potential drawbacks related to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essentialism.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#113

Post by FeteCommuniste »

teachingassist wrote: post #43

Using James Watson as an example is an interesting choice. When I think of James Watson, I think of someone who a) stole his major work (the one thing for which he is famous) from a woman without giving credit, and b) has been almost-literally cancelled for being consistently racist, also by his colleague-science-nerds who consistently report that they don't like him. Not someone that I want to celebrate for being a…

Interestingly, Rosalind Franklin herself may have been something of a "fierce nerd":

> From the outset, Franklin and Wilkins simply did not get on. Wilkins was quiet and hated arguments; Franklin was forceful and thrived on intellectual debate. Her friend Norma Sutherland recalled: “Her manner was brusque and at times confrontational – she aroused quite a lot of hostility among the people she talked to, and she seemed quite insensitive to this.”

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/23/sexism-in-sc...

Re: Fierce Nerds

#114

Post by def_true_false »

zozbot234 wrote: post #107
def_true_false wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sucks to be him of course, but what's the alternative? Uh, not firing people over Twitter drama? I swear America is getting more insane by the day. It's even more obvious if you take a break from social network sites and then come back after a while.

This wasn't even Twitter drama. He wrote that in a published book, that then went on and on and on demeaning women in all sorts of "fun" ways (i.e. this isn't a single throwaway statement that might be misunderstood; the misogyny is core to what he was saying). His girlfriend is "special" of course, but he still manages to say very not-nice things about her.

The book is like 5 years old... So, why now? Because of Twitter drama?

Edit: Well, it seems that, according to Wikipedia, the impetus might have been an article in tech media (which seems to mean anti-tech media these days).

Re: Fierce Nerds

#115

Post by waheoo »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #99

So, this is the second installment of Paul Graham's analysis of the various unwelcoming reactions to the MightyApp announcement a few weeks ago. Especially the last part. He is not completely wrong, but also visibly bitter.

Someone made an app / service that remote desktops chrome on a server to avoid the bloat?

Instead of using Firefox?

Was that an April fools?

Re: Fierce Nerds

#116

Post by hindsightbias »

miobrien wrote: post #36

It's weird to read an "essay" about "nerds" from a 56 year old. It's like he never got over the high school caste system of cliques.

Perhaps it's a generational thing, but a lot of people never get over high school.

Fortunately for my generation, we didn't scrimmage or skate with helmets so we don't remember who wronged us. IDK how later generations manage.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#117

Post by zip1234 »

educationcto wrote: post #53
teachingassist wrote: post #43

Using James Watson as an example is an interesting choice. When I think of James Watson, I think of someone who a) stole his major work (the one thing for which he is famous) from a woman without giving credit, and b) has been almost-literally cancelled for being consistently racist, also by his colleague-science-nerds who consistently report that they don't like him. Not someone that I want to celebrate for being a…

What an example to choose the same week that Paul is out defending Antonio Garcia Martinez's sexism on Twitter.

I didn't see it as defending sexism. It was more pointing out the hypocrisy of Apple for firing Martinez while selling and promoting 'Beats by Dre'. In both cases the creative works were well-known before the hire/acquisition.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#118

Post by wcarss »

grae_QED wrote: post #109

>To be a nerd is to be socially awkward, and there are two distinct ways to do that: to be playing the same game as everyone else, but badly, and to be playing a different game. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've always been under the impression that this is what it's like to be a geek. Maybe someone can help me understand the two. I've always identified more as a geek for this reason, but maybe I'm a nerd.

my read on the two has always been:

nerd: intellectually inclined

geek: unusually interested in some hobby

And of course being one, or both, or none, and liking math, or liking star wars, or both, or disliking math, or disliking star wars, etc. are all valid combinations.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#119

Post by woeIsPG »

_jal wrote: post #62
woeIsPG wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A year ago he was musing how categorizing people into two groups was too basic. Xist versus Yist, and he showed us with some pretty basic math. Now two groups is all we need to understand the world?

Well, we could certainly speak to the difference between those whose emotional needs are served by sharing their advice with the world, and those for whom they aren't.

I’d take PG more seriously if he actually had to work to maintain his flock. Folks who struck it rich in the lottery talk about how suddenly everyone wanted to be their friend.

I’ve been rummaging around the human experience for 41 years, applying technology to problems at public uni and big corp, building houses, growing food, hunting, earned degrees in electrical engineering and math.

To me that’s all there is, to go do directly.

All this feels like is someone who is riding off that lottery ticket.

That is, I’m not seeing an information advantage. Just a political capital advantage.

I thought we did away with allegiance to unelected political agents?

Re: Fierce Nerds

#120

Post by nindalf »

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #100

A lot of this essay feels a lot like cold reading of tech workers. PG brings up the 8 richest people in America, but if you look at the top like 10-15, the VAST majority are tech CEOs. So that’s who we’re talking about here. First, “independent-mindedness”. I’m guessing that if you survey people, approximately 95% of people would consider themselves “independent-minded”. Then he talks about social awkwardness and int…

Almost anyone reading this would think "oh wow, he's talking about me!" Like you point out, his criteria and statements are vague enough that anyone would think it applies to them. Such only need to follow PG's advice - be "fierce", ie, be an asshole to people to get ahead.
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