Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge • Hacker News Board

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#41

Post by mustafa_pasi » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

gspr wrote: post #28

focom wrote: post #2

So with PoS, we recreate a system where a few rich pool have decision over the network. Can someone enlighten me on how this is different from the current fiat system?

No, they can't enlighten you. They've bought into a cult, and if they started considering the fundamental question of how this is better than fiat currency, the cognitive dissonance would hurt.

In truth nobody knows. People hypothesize that recreating financial products on top of Ethereum (or Polkadot or Cordano) will result in competitive offerings. But it is hard to predict what will actually happen.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#42

Post by Athas » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

michael_vo wrote: post #32

What are the attack vectors on PoS. With PoW you need 51% of the mining power to take over the system, which is very labor intensive to set up. With PoS could you take over all coins by buying 51% of the existing coins? So if the market cap of ETH is 200BB spend 100BB to double your money?

Presumably, if someone took that kind of control over Ethereum, its value would rapidly become zero.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#43

Post by kemonocode » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

For the people who criticize as to why they've taken so long in shifting to a PoS model: consensus takes time, so does developing and testing something that definitively shouldn't go wrong.

Also, there's the inherent issue with Proof-of-Stake that Proof-of-Work doesn't have: the initial distribution of the coin has to be wide enough before it could feasibly self-maintain a PoS shift without being immediately vulnerable to consensus attacks. Ethereum is definitively mature enough by now, it wasn't a few years ago.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#44

Post by iDisagreedEar » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

secondcoming wrote: post #11

xiphias2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I myself stay with Bitcoin, Ethereum still has lots of advantages compared to the fiat system: it's still open source, and people can still validate the rules (although that full validation is extremely hard). Also the current fiat system is debt based, which means that the vast majority of money is printed by banks and the money printing power is at the highest ranking sales person, and hidden.

Have you ever actually used an Ethereum in real life outside of price speculation?

I don't accept ETH due to removing the soft cap on EIP 669. Infinite inflation like doge coin.

I have a ton of Bitcoin transactions with friends. Originally through the blockchain, now we use coinbase email for free transfers.

I don't keep my stash on there, but I keep spending money in there.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#45

Post by contravariant » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

focom wrote: post #2

So with PoS, we recreate a system where a few rich pool have decision over the network. Can someone enlighten me on how this is different from the current fiat system?

Governments don't typically own >50% of the current money supply.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#46

Post by meowface » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

gspr wrote: post #35

xiphias2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I myself stay with Bitcoin, Ethereum still has lots of advantages compared to the fiat system: it's still open source, and people can still validate the rules (although that full validation is extremely hard). Also the current fiat system is debt based, which means that the vast majority of money is printed by banks and the money printing power is at the highest ranking sales person, and hidden.

In a well functioning democratic society, the money printing is ultimately under democratic control. Don't lie.

You could say the decision to go to war is also ultimately under democratic control. Yes, it is, but it doesn't necessarily mean you should trust a politician or president when they want war.

Similarly, you shouldn't necessarily trust a central bank when they want to print money. (I'm not inherently opposed to it and think the pros probably outweigh the cons for some situations and intents; just saying accountability in cases like these isn't as simple as "it's the people's will".)

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#47

Post by sp332 » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

wyldfire wrote: post #14

> Ethereum’s power-hungry days are numbered, and I hope that’s true for the rest of the industry too. Ethereum has been talking about PoS for a long time, so until they actually deliver we should be looking at existing decentralized PoS coins.

There is actual, visible progress, plus a built-in self-destruct that will make continuing on the current chain basically impossible.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#48

Post by ysavir » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #33

h4kor wrote: post #13

> Several teams of engineers are working overtime to ensure that The Merge arrives as soon as possible, and without compromising on safety. Overworking your engineers will most definitely lead to compromises. But good to see that Ethereum came to their senses and are serious about reducing the environmental impact they have.

No it doesnt. Having hard time/budget/whatever constraints does. Otherwise, theoretically you can "overwork" i.e. (work more than standard 40 hour weeks or some standard of work hours) whatever without compromise

On paper, sure. In practice, having people overworked leads to compromises you never intend to make, simply due to exhaustion and burden clouding judgement values.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#49

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

michael_vo wrote: post #32

What are the attack vectors on PoS. With PoW you need 51% of the mining power to take over the system, which is very labor intensive to set up. With PoS could you take over all coins by buying 51% of the existing coins? So if the market cap of ETH is 200BB spend 100BB to double your money?

[deleted]

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#50

Post by fastball » Tue, May 18, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

gspr wrote: post #35

xiphias2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I myself stay with Bitcoin, Ethereum still has lots of advantages compared to the fiat system: it's still open source, and people can still validate the rules (although that full validation is extremely hard). Also the current fiat system is debt based, which means that the vast majority of money is printed by banks and the money printing power is at the highest ranking sales person, and hidden.

In a well functioning democratic society, the money printing is ultimately under democratic control. Don't lie.

No True Scotsman.