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Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

blog.ethereum.org

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Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#31

Post by Polygator »

gruez wrote: post #6
sergioisidoro wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current system is no different, as the hash power is related to how many computers you can afford to buy. This doesn't fix the problem but it does fix the environmental impact.

The difference is that with PoW you constantly have to do "stuff" (ie. buying equipment, running datacenters) or get left behind. PoS on the other hand you can just sit on your ass and wait for the $$$ to roll in.

Yeah, but obviously the "stuff" has led to a Red Queen problem, with the outcome being incredible waste of electricity and computing resources (compared to PoS or having a less competitive eth mining industry)

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#32

Post by michael_vo »

What are the attack vectors on PoS. With PoW you need 51% of the mining power to take over the system, which is very labor intensive to set up.

With PoS could you take over all coins by buying 51% of the existing coins? So if the market cap of ETH is 200BB spend 100BB to double your money?

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#33

Post by NikolaeVarius »

h4kor wrote: post #13

> Several teams of engineers are working overtime to ensure that The Merge arrives as soon as possible, and without compromising on safety. Overworking your engineers will most definitely lead to compromises. But good to see that Ethereum came to their senses and are serious about reducing the environmental impact they have.

No it doesnt. Having hard time/budget/whatever constraints does.

Otherwise, theoretically you can "overwork" i.e. (work more than standard 40 hour weeks or some standard of work hours) whatever without compromise

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#34

Post by iDisagreedEar »

Polygator wrote: post #15
focom wrote: post #2

So with PoS, we recreate a system where a few rich pool have decision over the network. Can someone enlighten me on how this is different from the current fiat system?

The justification is that contrarily to PoW, where there are economies of scale on computing power, PoS power scales linearly with your stake. Mining has been concentrated in the hands of a few gigantic mining pools for a while, and PoS will actually make Ethereum more democratic. Again, this is based on documentation, there might be unforeseen consequences

Anyone can mine Bitcoin, the rich are the only people in control of Ethereum transactions.

Unforseen? This has been known before the miners eliminated the soft cap on EIP 669.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#35

Post by gspr »

xiphias2 wrote: post #8
focom wrote: post #2

So with PoS, we recreate a system where a few rich pool have decision over the network. Can someone enlighten me on how this is different from the current fiat system?

While I myself stay with Bitcoin, Ethereum still has lots of advantages compared to the fiat system: it's still open source, and people can still validate the rules (although that full validation is extremely hard). Also the current fiat system is debt based, which means that the vast majority of money is printed by banks and the money printing power is at the highest ranking sales person, and hidden.

In a well functioning democratic society, the money printing is ultimately under democratic control. Don't lie.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#36

Post by meowface »

focom wrote: post #2

So with PoS, we recreate a system where a few rich pool have decision over the network. Can someone enlighten me on how this is different from the current fiat system?

Here's a comparison of PoS and PoW by Vitalik Buterin (creator of Ethereum): https://vitalik.ca/general/2020/11/06/pos2020.html

Obviously he's biased in favor of PoS for various reasons, but I think it's a worthy read.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#37

Post by lucideer »

Croftengea wrote: post #30

The title suggests PoS for ETH is 100x more efficient than PoW whereas the article actually estimates PoW to be 2000x more efficient.

To clarify further: the HN title says 100x whereas the article title says 2000x

Update: it's been fixed

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#38

Post by eventreduce1 »

michael_vo wrote: post #32

What are the attack vectors on PoS. With PoW you need 51% of the mining power to take over the system, which is very labor intensive to set up. With PoS could you take over all coins by buying 51% of the existing coins? So if the market cap of ETH is 200BB spend 100BB to double your money?

Yes and no. If you spend 100BB to buy 51% and then take over the network, eth will have zero value and you loosed 100BB.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#39

Post by fastball »

pinkybanana wrote: post #18
sergioisidoro wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current system is no different, as the hash power is related to how many computers you can afford to buy. This doesn't fix the problem but it does fix the environmental impact.

No, it is very different because in practice the pools and exchanges are totally separate entities. With PoS the biggest holders will be exchanges and therefore exchanges will control the cryptocurrency. With PoS there will be clearly less decentralization compared to PoW.

In order to be a validator in PoS (at least Ethereum's implementation) you need to lock up the funds, so not sure how an exchange would be particularly well-suited for that – they need to keep most of the coins on their books liquid so that the customers who actually own them can quickly trade them.

Re: Ethereum will use around 99.95% less energy post merge

#40

Post by throw1234651234 »

michael_vo wrote: post #32

What are the attack vectors on PoS. With PoW you need 51% of the mining power to take over the system, which is very labor intensive to set up. With PoS could you take over all coins by buying 51% of the existing coins? So if the market cap of ETH is 200BB spend 100BB to double your money?

You don't double your money - at that point the network is compromised and nobody wants your coins. It's a guaranteed way to destroy Ethereum's value, but the only incentive to do it is to troll. Not too many entities globally looking to spend that much for a laugh, even if they could get the necessary funds in liquid form AND manage not to drive up price with their buy orders.
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