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Fierce Nerds

paulgraham.com

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Re: Fierce Nerds

#91

Post by spamizbad »

helen___keller wrote: post #77
spamizbad wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think after the dotcom craze, it stopped being "edgy" or "different" to be passionate/ambitious about technology. If anything, it's the most straightforward thing to pursue ideas or business interests with these days, especially if you have a "fierce" personality.

To be fair, there's a lot more to the "nerd" archetype than just technology. But, from my experience, it was not particularly edgy or differentiating to be passionate about video games, board games, card games, literature, obscure TV, fanfics, internet culture, etc.

Yeah... if anything that seems normal these days? Many young adults are passionate about at least one of those things, whereas for Gen-X (Paul's generational cohort) those were far more underground interests.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#92

Post by tchalla »

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #75
javajosh wrote: post #31

The first rush of comments are all negative, mostly of the ad hominem sort, accusing PG of publicly psychoanalyzing himself. And yet, I really liked the essay because it reads like a lifeline to those who doubt themselves, perhaps profoundly. To PG the same qualities that alienate a "fierce nerd" in so many contexts are precisely the same qualities that could lead to success (even dominance) in other contexts. The us…

> And yet, I really liked the essay because it reads like a lifeline to those who doubt themselves, perhaps profoundly Do they? I mean one of the define characteristics is an overconfidence in themselves. I think PG is trying to justify some kind of assholish behaviour in his past by reframing it as a virtue. Really, I think the “fierceness” is incidental. Do immensely successful people need to be somewhat competitiv…

> I think PG is trying to justify some kind of assholish behaviour in his past by reframing it as a virtue.

I wonder how much Bill Gates triggered this write up.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#93

Post by HDMI_Cable »

spamizbad wrote: post #14
HDMI_Cable wrote: post #5

Does anyone else feel sort of weird when Paul Graham talks about nerds? It feels like he's trying to deal with something on his end, and we're just watching him rationalize to himself.

I feel like the Gen-X terminology of a nerd just isn't a thing anymore. Being an older millennial, I fully understand what sort of person Graham is talking about, however I don't think Zoomers or even younger Millennials would describe these people as "nerds". Also, these days if you are a smart ambitious person looking to make an impact with technology you're not terribly edgy and you certainly aren't defying any ma…

Yeah, Graham's definition of 'nerd' seems more like a social class, whereas today, being a 'nerd' is an adjective, and a pretty neutral one at that.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#94

Post by dncornholio »

If you don't let the word nerd affect you with bad feelings, the post is pretty OK.

I don't think nerd is a bad thing to say anymore.

Also I can identify me with this personality. Last few years I can find myself turning more into bitterness and I just started realising that the cause is not external.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#95

Post by shard »

helen___keller wrote: post #77
spamizbad wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think after the dotcom craze, it stopped being "edgy" or "different" to be passionate/ambitious about technology. If anything, it's the most straightforward thing to pursue ideas or business interests with these days, especially if you have a "fierce" personality.

To be fair, there's a lot more to the "nerd" archetype than just technology. But, from my experience, it was not particularly edgy or differentiating to be passionate about video games, board games, card games, literature, obscure TV, fanfics, internet culture, etc.

Is the word "geek" no longer used for what you are describing? Although there a lot of overlap, I thought nerd referred to strong interests in academic subjects and geek referred to niche cultural subjects.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#96

Post by vbsteven »

mikece wrote: post #2

I can't help thinking that "fierce nerd" and Asperger syndrome go together. There will be some random Steve Jobs assholes as well but I think they are the exception.

Exactly my thoughts as well. Almost all fierce nerd traits PG describes are signs typically seen in Asperger/ASD/Gifted. I recognise myself in the article, as well as a number of my friends/colleagues who are all diagnosed with one or more of the above.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#97

Post by bredren »

pattusk wrote: post #18

> Most people think of nerds as quiet, diffident people. [...] In fact some nerds are quite fierce. That someone would think nerds are not competitive is, to me, the strangest thing about this article. Perhaps because I'm one, but whether it's Magic the gathering, Demoparties, rubics cube solving, chess, Counterstrike LANs, academia, or any of my tech jobs, every "nerdy" activity I've ever engaged with has always bee…

It is probably because competition is so commonly attributed to physical athletics. Physical strength or stamina exhibited on the playing field is competition.

Spelling bee competitors are seen positively, but also almost as a joke compared to quarterbacks. Mathlete? A joke in popular culture.

There is some evidence that this is changing, but there is also a lot of bad art. The Social Network, and Steve Jobs the film portray fierce nerds that basically no one wants to know.

The actual people?

Zuck and Dorsey just got through extracting maximum advertising value from the heart of US democracy.

Bezos hasn't done fierce nerds any favors with his squeezing of the lowest paid people in his organization.

Bill Gates' reputation is headed downhill right now faster than ever before.

Tim Cook has real potential. But the jury is still out. We do not know the calculus involved in compromising privacy values in China.

It is going to take a lot more well-known, rich, fierce nerds that also manage to round out their personality before we see mainstream positive portrayal and following of competitiveness in intellectual exercises.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#98

Post by dagw »

helen___keller wrote: post #77
spamizbad wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think after the dotcom craze, it stopped being "edgy" or "different" to be passionate/ambitious about technology. If anything, it's the most straightforward thing to pursue ideas or business interests with these days, especially if you have a "fierce" personality.

To be fair, there's a lot more to the "nerd" archetype than just technology. But, from my experience, it was not particularly edgy or differentiating to be passionate about video games, board games, card games, literature, obscure TV, fanfics, internet culture, etc.

there's a lot more to the "nerd" archetype than just technology.

I'd probably go as far as saying that technology (or at least practical technical skills) has become far less relevant as a 'nerd' marker.

Many of the self identifying 'nerds' I meet might be avid technophiles, but it's not like most of them know how to code better than anybody else (or at all in many cases).

Re: Fierce Nerds

#99

Post by stephc_int13 »

So, this is the second installment of Paul Graham's analysis of the various unwelcoming reactions to the MightyApp announcement a few weeks ago.

Especially the last part.

He is not completely wrong, but also visibly bitter.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#100

Post by Bukhmanizer »

A lot of this essay feels a lot like cold reading of tech workers. PG brings up the 8 richest people in America, but if you look at the top like 10-15, the VAST majority are tech CEOs. So that’s who we’re talking about here.

First, “independent-mindedness”. I’m guessing that if you survey people, approximately 95% of people would consider themselves “independent-minded”.

Then he talks about social awkwardness and intelligence. I would say about 90% of tech workers would consider themselves both of those things.

And competitiveness? Probably any CEO could be considered somewhat competitive. Just to succeed at that scale probably requires some competitiveness.

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