Live data from Hacker News

Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

bbc.com

601–610 of 693 posts

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#601
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about sides here but if you launch rockets into cities indiscriminately and then the building where you keep your weapons, communication center using human shields after warning residents well ahead of time that the building will be blown up, actually gets taken out who is at fault here? Why are people even defending Hamas???! Does Israel not have right to defend itself? Is Israel like South Korea who gets a…

This is an unnuanced take that ignores the complexity of the issue and provacative actions taken by Israel.

Self defense is provocative?

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#602
post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just to clarify: these are the neighbours that expelled all their Jews leaving them refugees in Israel and also tried to destroy the country and many of which have not stopped trying for its entire history. Getting along takes two Sure, if you decide to start there. If you start a little further away, around WWI and before WWII, you have Jews settling lands where they were a small minority en masse , and after WWII…

> Sure, if you decide to start there. You seem to imply that the ethnic cleansing of the Jews from Arab Muslim countries was “caused” by earlier events. Are you suggesting that the ethnic cleansing of Jews in all Arab-Muslim states was justified by some other Jews buying land?

I'm saying the sectarian violence, including massacres and ethnic cleansing, on both sides, were caused by the mass Jewish migration, Zionist pretentions and ambitions, British policy in Palestine, among others.

"Buying land" is a drastic simplification. When an ethnic group moves en masse to a location inhabited mostly by another ethnic group, and claim the generic land around for their own religious and ethnic group, how can that not cause problems ? Why would the majority ethnic group in the location sit idly by while they get replaced? Especially when the colonial power in charge promises them independence, and also to give their homeland to the other ethnic group, and encourages their migration there?

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#603
post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the coverage of the conflict is one-sided and popular opinion is on the side of the Palestinians. The reason for that is that the conflict itself is one-sided. Gaza is occupied by Israel. Further, Israel has the overwhelming advantage in military power and the Palestinians suffer the overwhelming majority of casualties every time there is conflict. In the 2008-09 war, the total number of Israeli citizens killed…

How do you explain the same exact global reaction in 2006, when Hezbollah started a war by kidnapping and killing Israeli soldiers on the border and firing missiles into Israel? Massive protests, 'Israel is committing war crimes/genocide', followed by international condemnation. OP that you're responding to is exactly correct - there is zero outrage against the Syrian or Yemen Civil war (where Iranian-funded troops h…

re: outrage at Israel and not at Syria, etc.:

1. Israeli bombings, unlike actions in Syria and Yemen, are directly funded by the United States, which makes them a highly relevant issue for Americans and for people concerned with America's role in geopolitics.

2. Visibility. Israel is given extreme favor in US political circles, but that ironically works against it in this case. Their struggles are highly visible, but as a result, so is their aggression.

3. We're working on it. International solidarity protests have seen a dramatic rise in recent years, but we can only learn so quickly.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#604
post #577
post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just to clarify: these are the neighbours that expelled all their Jews leaving them refugees in Israel and also tried to destroy the country and many of which have not stopped trying for its entire history. Getting along takes two Sure, if you decide to start there. If you start a little further away, around WWI and before WWII, you have Jews settling lands where they were a small minority en masse , and after WWII…

What does Jews buying swamps in pre-state Israel have to do with Iraqi or Egyptian Jews, for example, who were ethnically cleansed? I'm not seeing the connection

The connection is that once Zionism was an actual threat and Jews were trying to get the whole of Palestine, and massacres started on both sides, Muslims around the world took the side of their "brothers" in the "war".

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#605
FWIW Bing Maps (not mentioned in article) is also blurry, or rather because of their rendering preferences it is pixelated. Bing Maps has different and sometimes superior aerial imagery to Google Maps, but not this time.

Baidu Maps astonishingly has no roads at all in Gaza; just a little bit of data about parks. No aerial imagery for the area too. I don't read Chinese so can't tell if they have any explanation.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But more Palestenian lives are being lost. Purely from a numbers perspective if you put aside all other variables or blame, wouldn't that explain why one side is being criticized extra right now?

How about criticizing Hamas, a terrorist organization, for shooting rockets at civilian populations of a country with one of the most advanced armies of the world? How about criticizing Hamas for shooting these rockets from civilian centers? Seems like the media is willfully ignorant here. Then you have nonsense like: https://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5912189/yes-gaza-militants-hid... Clearly this smells foul.

Are you asking Hamas to walk out into the desert and build a base there? This is equivalent to the Revolutionary War-era Brits telling the colonists to fight fairly instead of hiding in the woods. Fighting fair is for fair fights. In unfair fights, people use the tactics available to them. If Hamas were to build a purely military base, it would be leveled and everyone on it would be dead within two days. One might suspect at that point that they weren't seriously trying.

It is not the Palestinians' job to submit quietly to gradual but violent displacement by an occupying outside force. It is also not the Palestinians' job to make a big show of getting murdered in an open field with honor. Those are not the requirements for a people to be defended from ethnic cleansing.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But more Palestenian lives are being lost. Purely from a numbers perspective if you put aside all other variables or blame, wouldn't that explain why one side is being criticized extra right now?

> Purely from a numbers perspective if you put aside all other variables Why would you put aside variables that are more important to casualty numbers? It's not a symmetrical situation. One side tries to increase casualty numbers on both sides of the conflict. The other side tries to decrease casualty numbers on both sides of the conflict. How would comparing casualty numbers in this situation tell you anything about…

Bombing civilian buildings is not a way to decrease casualty numbers on both sides of a conflict. The more peaceful alternative to bombing civilian buildings is not sending leaflets and then bombing civilian buildings, it is declining to bomb civilian buildings.

Using slightly less violence than is available to you does not make you the good guy, especially when the violence you use is drastically higher than the violence that is even possible from the other side.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#608
post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What different standards do you mean?

I've never, in any other conflict, witnessed a public opinion on the side of the aggressor. I've never, in any other conflict, seen an army that's not fighting overseas, but is desperately trying to prevent massive loss of life in it's own population, accused of "disproportionate" response — even though it would take measures to prevent any casualties that are completely unprecedented in world practices and makes ach…

Some of the things you're saying are true, but I think you need to make an effort to put yourself in the mindset of the other side. I live in Tel Aviv, I am sympathetic to the way you feel and know many fellow Israelis who feel the same way. But it's not an absolute, universal truth that the Palestinians are the aggressor. Just as convinced as you are that they are evil, bloodthirsty people hellbent on killing you, many of them are convinced the exact opposite - that you are all of those things toward them.

I say this to everyone reading: if you can't understand your enemy, if you cannot fathom why they act the way they do, if you cannot get into their heads and hearts and empathize with them, you ought to wonder if you simply lack imagination or are living in a bubble.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#609

This link title is extremely misleading to the point of being disingenuous and provocative. The title of the linked article is “Israel-Gaza: Why is the region blurry on Google Maps?”... because the entire Israel / Gaza / West Bank region is blurred in the exact same way. There is no preferential blurring of Palestinian areas. The clear answer is to prevent actors on both sides from using Google’s satellite imagery to…

IDF doesn't need Google maps to plan any attacks. They have an arsenal of remote surveillance methods including 24/7 monitering by both low and high altitude drones, not to mention frequent flyovers in upgraded F-16s. > But please continue the breathless hot takes. This part of your comment doesn't belong on HN.

You’re right, my last line was itself provocative and unhelpful. Unfortunately I’m unable to edit now. But my point is that what also doesn’t belong on HN are (a) a blatantly editorialized clickbait title and (b) a comment section full of knee-jerk reactions seeming to take the title at face value.

But to your point, indeed the IDF are not going to be planning their air strikes via google maps. The violent actors on the Palestinian side are more likely to “benefit” from publicly available high-resolution satellite imagery of Israel than vice versa. However as others have noted below, US law (kyl-bingaman amendment) apparently requires blurring of high-res imagery of Israel, so Israel was going to be blurred no matter what.

Which ironically brings us back to the question, why is Gaza blurred as well? Google doesn’t have to do that.

My initial assumption is laziness backed by armchair altruism. It’s easier to just apply a blanket blur policy to the entire Israel-Palestine region to comply with aforementioned KB amendment given the dynamic nature of the borders. Given that blurring is, at least at face value, considered a good thing for security, I could see the people in the room thinking “it’s easier for us and it increases the security of the entire region. We get ahead of any possible claim that google maps is enabling attacks on Palestine while protecting Israel. Problem solved.”.. without thinking through the potential negative externalities.

But as you’ve raised, blurring Palestine doesn’t meaningfully prevent planned attacks on Palestine, except if they’re carried out by rogue Israeli actors without state resources. In my understanding those are not as common. So then it raises the legitimate question, “does the negative externality of ‘preventing the world from easily accessing satellite imagery of Palestine and thus understanding the extent of urban destruction’ outweigh the positive benefit to general Palestinian security”? From an objective perspective, possibly, but from Google’s perspective, not blurring would be a much more politically charged move requiring nuanced explanation, so they’re not going to risk it.

In the end it’s very “damned if you do, damned if you don’t,” much like every other aspect of the broader conflict.

Re: Why is the Gaza Strip blurry on Google Maps?

#610
post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the coverage of the conflict is one-sided and popular opinion is on the side of the Palestinians. The reason for that is that the conflict itself is one-sided. Gaza is occupied by Israel. Further, Israel has the overwhelming advantage in military power and the Palestinians suffer the overwhelming majority of casualties every time there is conflict. In the 2008-09 war, the total number of Israeli citizens killed…

How do you explain the same exact global reaction in 2006, when Hezbollah started a war by kidnapping and killing Israeli soldiers on the border and firing missiles into Israel? Massive protests, 'Israel is committing war crimes/genocide', followed by international condemnation. OP that you're responding to is exactly correct - there is zero outrage against the Syrian or Yemen Civil war (where Iranian-funded troops h…

While I agree that there should be more outrage about other tragedies, "Better than Syria" is not the standard that I want to hold my country to, so I don't engage in such arguments. We (Israel) consider ourselves to be a western nation, with western ideals and standards. And so it is reasonable that we'd be called out if we fail to live up to the standards of the crowd we want to hang out with. I'd be disappointed if we started to be grouped along with Syria and Yemen.
Post reply on HN