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Fierce Nerds

paulgraham.com

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Re: Fierce Nerds

#31

Post by javajosh »

The first rush of comments are all negative, mostly of the ad hominem sort, accusing PG of publicly psychoanalyzing himself. And yet, I really liked the essay because it reads like a lifeline to those who doubt themselves, perhaps profoundly. To PG the same qualities that alienate a "fierce nerd" in so many contexts are precisely the same qualities that could lead to success (even dominance) in other contexts.

The useful follow on to this essay, I would think, is to give a list, as long as possible, of places where "fierce nerds" are wanted, demanded, needed - both well-known institutions and startups.

Another useful follow up would be to give better advice about achieving harmony. Everyone deserves peace; to put it another way, progress that requires a human to sacrifice love isn't worth making.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#32

Post by [deleted] »

pattusk wrote: post #18

> Most people think of nerds as quiet, diffident people. [...] In fact some nerds are quite fierce. That someone would think nerds are not competitive is, to me, the strangest thing about this article. Perhaps because I'm one, but whether it's Magic the gathering, Demoparties, rubics cube solving, chess, Counterstrike LANs, academia, or any of my tech jobs, every "nerdy" activity I've ever engaged with has always bee…

[deleted]

Re: Fierce Nerds

#33

Post by bilbo0s »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #4

> Fierce nerds also tend to be somewhat overconfident, especially when young. I wonder if that statement is overly specific. AFAIK, young people in general, or at least young men in general, have a reputation for being overconfident.

It's a fact that all humans are overconfident. That's why we have biases that make us confident in what we "know", and make us reject information to the contrary even if the information is factually accurate.

The overconfidence is not a trait endemic only to male "nerds".

Of course, it's still helpful to concede that humans should recognize and be aware of that weakness in themselves. Overconfidence is the reason so many spend the healthy end years of their lives so much less well off financially than they spent their healthy prime years. It behooves us all to be on guard against our overconfidence.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#34

Post by typon »

question000 wrote: post #3

This feels weirdly like someone working out emotional issues by describing them in an emotionally distant "rational" way. Like what does this have to do with anything other then the thoughts in Paul Grahams head?

What are personal blogs for?

Re: Fierce Nerds

#35

Post by graderjs »

Somewhere in a secluded underground luxury bunker, Sergey Mikhaylovich Brin, Larry Edward Page and Bill Henry Gates are fiercely nodding their heads in agreement. ;p ;) xx

Re: Fierce Nerds

#36

Post by miobrien »

It's weird to read an "essay" about "nerds" from a 56 year old. It's like he never got over the high school caste system of cliques.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#37

Post by moolcool »

helen___keller wrote: post #21

I enjoy reading Paul Graham's musings on nerds / nerdiness, but I can't help but have difficulty relating. Maybe it's a generational thing (born in '92), but Graham often seems to paint a picture of nerds similar to what you might see in movies and TV shows depicting the 80s, like the kids in Stranger Things. Even this article, while I can certainly conjure which of my friends growing up were the "fierce nerd", it st…

There's definitely some eccentric people in the field, but a vast majority people I've met working in tech were hardly the Poindexter type characterized in these articles

Re: Fierce Nerds

#38

Post by automatic6131 »

MyHypatia wrote: post #20

I met a lot of nerds in graduate school. In my experience the "fierce" nerds weren't smarter or successful than the "nonfierce" nerds. The fierce nerds were just more insecure and emotionally immature. They felt more threatened by being surrounded by other people who might smarter or more successful than them. It threatened their identity of being uniquely intelligent. They responded by lashing out. It may be that th…

As someone who feels like this description of "fierce nerd" applies to themselves, I'd agree. I'm clever, but not particularly so. And I'm not particularly successful either. And my abrasiveness has lost me many friendships and relationships over the years too.

Perhaps it's a flattener of the bellcurve of success. If you only look at the right hand side you will see lots of fierce nerds. But you aren't seeing the many, many more who are just ordinary, annoying assholes.

Re: Fierce Nerds

#39

Post by nzmsv »

moolcool wrote: post #37
helen___keller wrote: post #21

I enjoy reading Paul Graham's musings on nerds / nerdiness, but I can't help but have difficulty relating. Maybe it's a generational thing (born in '92), but Graham often seems to paint a picture of nerds similar to what you might see in movies and TV shows depicting the 80s, like the kids in Stranger Things. Even this article, while I can certainly conjure which of my friends growing up were the "fierce nerd", it st…

There's definitely some eccentric people in the field, but a vast majority people I've met working in tech were hardly the Poindexter type characterized in these articles

But do they think of themselves as such?

Re: Fierce Nerds

#40

Post by jt2190 »

[Here's my best summary of what a "fierce nerd" is, according to this essay]

Most non-nerds think of nerds as:

    * quiet
    * diffident
In fact some nerds are quite fierce. "Fierce nerds" are:

    * small group [subset of nerds overall?]
    * more competitive than highly competitive non-nerds
    * competition is more personal for them; they're not 
      emotionally mature enough to distance themselves 
      personally from competition
    * work in areas that are less random in the kinds of
      competition they engage in [no points for 
      persuasion or style, I suppose]
    * somewhat overconfident, especially when young
    * intelligent, at least moderately so
    * independent-mindeded, see fitting it as wasted effort
    * annoyed by rules
    * impatient, not sure why
[I'll let you draw your own conclusions.]
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